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Telegram has a long history of obfuscation when it comes to court orders. In Brazil, they simply ignored previous court orders until they were banned. They play

by epups 3y ago

Telegram has a long history of obfuscation when it comes to court orders. In Brazil, they simply ignored previous court orders until they were banned. They played a similar trick in Germany too, and backed down after heavy fines: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-takes-on-telegram-to-fight-extremism/a-60474738 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-takes-on-telegram-to-fight-ext... So, I wouldn't take anything they say at face value. It's not only about giving out the information they have on these individuals, it's also about shutting down other similar groups according to the court order. I'm not a free speech absolutist, I think that no platform should harbor Nazism and death threats, particularly after they have already resulted in murder. If they fundamentally cannot comply with this, then they should be banned indeed.

rafaelrc 3y ago
They did not "simply ignore" the court order. They did give the data they had, thats being all info about the groups owner. Furthermore, the court asked for info such as CPF number, home address and Bank account information. How the hell is this reasonable? Furthermore, if you just blocked every platform just because it "had nazis on it", or even better, any kind of criminal group, hell, you should just block the whole damn internet already. Source: the court order (in Portuguese) https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grupos-neonazistas.pdf https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grup... For non-Brazilians, that is a document in Brazil that almost everyone has, and is the most commonly used to identify you. But Telegram never asks you for it.
- epups 3y ago
  You should read the court order you posted here. Specifically these parts: "Sucedeu-se que, nos termos do que demonstrou suficientemente a autoridade policial, essa empresa cumpriu apenas parcialmente a ordem judicial que lhe foi dirigida, uma vez que se limitou a fornecer as informações concernentes ao administrador (e não a todos os usuários) do canal “Movimento Anti-Semita Brasileiro”, deixando, ademais, de fornecer os dados dos usuários do grupo “卐 Frente Anti-Semita 卐”. (...) não se sustenta a argumentação, desenvolvida pelo Telegram, de impossibilidade de apresentar os dados relativos à "卐 Frente Anti-Semita 卐", à míngua da demonstração cabal de que esse grupo (chat) foi excluído há mais de seis meses, contados da data em que recebido o ofício judicial do evento 16 (do contrário, incide sobre o provedor o dever previsto no art. 15 da Lei n. 12.965/2014)." In other words, the judge ordered all information they had (including CPF) about all users of the groups. They gave only what they had on the admin of one of the groups, and then said they couldn't give any info about the other group because it had been closed. But not storing info for at least 6 months is against the law. To me it's clear Telegram is in contempt of court and should be severely punished.

by epups 3y ago

rafaelrc 3y ago

They did not "simply ignore" the court order. They did give the data they had, thats being all info about the groups owner. Furthermore, the court asked for info such as CPF number, home address and Bank account information. How the hell is this reasonable? Furthermore, if you just blocked every platform just because it "had nazis on it", or even better, any kind of criminal group, hell, you should just block the whole damn internet already. Source: the court order (in Portuguese) https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grupos-neonazistas.pdf https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grup... For non-Brazilians, that is a document in Brazil that almost everyone has, and is the most commonly used to identify you. But Telegram never asks you for it.

epups 3y ago
You should read the court order you posted here. Specifically these parts: "Sucedeu-se que, nos termos do que demonstrou suficientemente a autoridade policial, essa empresa cumpriu apenas parcialmente a ordem judicial que lhe foi dirigida, uma vez que se limitou a fornecer as informações concernentes ao administrador (e não a todos os usuários) do canal “Movimento Anti-Semita Brasileiro”, deixando, ademais, de fornecer os dados dos usuários do grupo “卐 Frente Anti-Semita 卐”. (...) não se sustenta a argumentação, desenvolvida pelo Telegram, de impossibilidade de apresentar os dados relativos à "卐 Frente Anti-Semita 卐", à míngua da demonstração cabal de que esse grupo (chat) foi excluído há mais de seis meses, contados da data em que recebido o ofício judicial do evento 16 (do contrário, incide sobre o provedor o dever previsto no art. 15 da Lei n. 12.965/2014)." In other words, the judge ordered all information they had (including CPF) about all users of the groups. They gave only what they had on the admin of one of the groups, and then said they couldn't give any info about the other group because it had been closed. But not storing info for at least 6 months is against the law. To me it's clear Telegram is in contempt of court and should be severely punished.