9 ms·

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every d

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped.

altacc 3y ago
History hasn't stopped, history, as in our chronological description of past events, has always been constantly edited, with the telling of the same events differing depending upon who is telling the story (and their motivations), and subject to interpretation based on current zeitgeist. There is a stream of immutable events in the past but "history" is not a stale recording of these events, it is a living process.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  I think it's a quote from Nineteen Eighty-Four. From memory, that is what I recall. Let me check my paper copy...
  - arethuza 3y ago
    Yes it is from 1984: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/481916-every-record-has-been-destroyed-or-falsified-every-book-rewritten https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/481916-every-record-has-bee...
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > our chronological description of past events, has always been constantly edited No, it has been constantly retold. New people have written new histories. They haven't edited other people's histories while continuing to label those histories as the work of the original authors. What's happening here isn't "our views are changing, so we are producing new material based on those changed views". They are altering existing works written by people who are long dead, without making it clear to the reader/viewer what has been changed.
  - bolanyo 3y ago
    > They haven't edited other people's histories while continuing to label those histories as the work of the original authors. You are extremely naive. This has happened lots and lots of times.
    - whythre 3y ago
      [dead]
    - p-e-w 3y ago
      Please provide an example, preferably one where the editing was done on a scale comparable to the one happening currently.
      - bolanyo 3y ago
        Please provide an example of an culturally important large-scale work of history or literature, at least 1,000 years old, which hasn't been abridged, extracted, expurgated, euphemized, hidden, bowdlerized, etc.
        p-e-w 3y ago
        For most works 1000 years or older, we don't know the full textual provenance, so providing an example in either direction is essentially impossible. But if the phenomenon is as widespread as you claim, it should be easy to find much more recent examples.
        bolanyo 3y ago
        [dead]
        defrost 3y ago
        Easy enough, Pilbarra and Kimberley rock art of the Gwion Gwion, Wandjina, and other traditions. It's only recently that one of the traditional keepers passed [1] [1] https://www.magabala.com/collections/david-mowaljarlai https://www.magabala.com/collections/david-mowaljarlai Of course now that the colonisers have reached the lands the sites are under threat from gas plants and industrial development .. but several thousand years was a good run.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  Yes, but there are huge qualitative difference and they are important. Even among historians there is mission creep to adapt the past to fit a certain perspective. Of course the Zeitgeist is an influence, but to say that deliberate re-interprations are just like any other reassesment is a lie.
  - watwut 3y ago
    But a lot of that is actually good thing. The past stories were also told to fit a certain perspective. People were intentionally left out, acts of other people were intentionally left out, all that to conform to past ideologies. There is a reason history ignored certain people, minorities or genders. And adding their point of view is a good thing.
    - raxxorraxor 3y ago
      Yes, but that was not bias. That was done deliberately and falsified history. It comparable to attempts to adapt history for the sensibilities of today.
      - watwut 3y ago
        Except that what you call "adapt history for the sensibilities of today" is in 95% of cases "actually telling something negative about celebrated past historical figure". It is "not pretending that the rape described here in euphemisms was something different then just rape". The whole divisive concepts bruhaha is all about returning to the way past was mythologized and made sound better then it actually was.
- jasmer 3y ago
  There's a difference between new information clarifying history vs. ideology. Perspective is always a thing, but lies are lies.
- sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
  That's just a quote from 1984, come on.
lm28469 3y ago
> History has stopped. Sounds like the people saying "evolution has stopped" for humans, the fact that your living it (by definition) in slow motion because your part of it doesn't mean it has stopped.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mypastself 3y ago
All these attempts at banning and censorship tend to focus on the wrong things. We should all put as much pressure as possible on elected leaders to ban references to 1984 on the Internet every time there’s government overreach or censorship. It’s a great book and the references are often apt, but they’re incredibly overused and cliché. Such a law would do a great deal to force people to read or talk about other pertinent books. Call it The BRADBURY Act (Bringing a Reasonable Amount of Different Books… um… Under Review… uh… every Year).
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > It’s a great book and the references are often apt, but they’re incredibly overused and cliché. No that overused, it appears. Look at how man replies didn't know what the source material was. If 1984 and Animal Farm was still required reading in HS, we'd have a very different population. One, I expect, that would be more critical of thoughtcrime and revisionist history than of imaginary boogeymen.
danjc 3y ago
It would be interesting to see the count of 1984 references per year in HN comments here. Almost sure there's a steady YoY increase. Unfortunately it's so prescient it's no longer helpful to reference it.
flippinburgers 3y ago
Certainly now that history can be rewritten literally in an instant by something like chatgpt means that we are indeed no longer going to know what happened in the past. Granted we haven't ever really known with much certainty, but now complete rewrites are a keypress away.

altacc 3y ago

History hasn't stopped, history, as in our chronological description of past events, has always been constantly edited, with the telling of the same events differing depending upon who is telling the story (and their motivations), and subject to interpretation based on current zeitgeist. There is a stream of immutable events in the past but "history" is not a stale recording of these events, it is a living process.

HPsquared 3y ago
I think it's a quote from Nineteen Eighty-Four. From memory, that is what I recall. Let me check my paper copy...
- arethuza 3y ago
  Yes it is from 1984: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/481916-every-record-has-been-destroyed-or-falsified-every-book-rewritten https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/481916-every-record-has-bee...
p-e-w 3y ago
> our chronological description of past events, has always been constantly edited No, it has been constantly retold. New people have written new histories. They haven't edited other people's histories while continuing to label those histories as the work of the original authors. What's happening here isn't "our views are changing, so we are producing new material based on those changed views". They are altering existing works written by people who are long dead, without making it clear to the reader/viewer what has been changed.
- bolanyo 3y ago
  > They haven't edited other people's histories while continuing to label those histories as the work of the original authors. You are extremely naive. This has happened lots and lots of times.
  - whythre 3y ago
    [dead]
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    Please provide an example, preferably one where the editing was done on a scale comparable to the one happening currently.
    - bolanyo 3y ago
      Please provide an example of an culturally important large-scale work of history or literature, at least 1,000 years old, which hasn't been abridged, extracted, expurgated, euphemized, hidden, bowdlerized, etc.
      - p-e-w 3y ago
        For most works 1000 years or older, we don't know the full textual provenance, so providing an example in either direction is essentially impossible. But if the phenomenon is as widespread as you claim, it should be easy to find much more recent examples.
        bolanyo 3y ago
        [dead]
      - defrost 3y ago
        Easy enough, Pilbarra and Kimberley rock art of the Gwion Gwion, Wandjina, and other traditions. It's only recently that one of the traditional keepers passed [1] [1] https://www.magabala.com/collections/david-mowaljarlai https://www.magabala.com/collections/david-mowaljarlai Of course now that the colonisers have reached the lands the sites are under threat from gas plants and industrial development .. but several thousand years was a good run.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
Yes, but there are huge qualitative difference and they are important. Even among historians there is mission creep to adapt the past to fit a certain perspective. Of course the Zeitgeist is an influence, but to say that deliberate re-interprations are just like any other reassesment is a lie.
- watwut 3y ago
  But a lot of that is actually good thing. The past stories were also told to fit a certain perspective. People were intentionally left out, acts of other people were intentionally left out, all that to conform to past ideologies. There is a reason history ignored certain people, minorities or genders. And adding their point of view is a good thing.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    Yes, but that was not bias. That was done deliberately and falsified history. It comparable to attempts to adapt history for the sensibilities of today.
    - watwut 3y ago
      Except that what you call "adapt history for the sensibilities of today" is in 95% of cases "actually telling something negative about celebrated past historical figure". It is "not pretending that the rape described here in euphemisms was something different then just rape". The whole divisive concepts bruhaha is all about returning to the way past was mythologized and made sound better then it actually was.
jasmer 3y ago
There's a difference between new information clarifying history vs. ideology. Perspective is always a thing, but lies are lies.
sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
That's just a quote from 1984, come on.

lm28469 3y ago

> History has stopped. Sounds like the people saying "evolution has stopped" for humans, the fact that your living it (by definition) in slow motion because your part of it doesn't mean it has stopped.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mypastself 3y ago

All these attempts at banning and censorship tend to focus on the wrong things. We should all put as much pressure as possible on elected leaders to ban references to 1984 on the Internet every time there’s government overreach or censorship. It’s a great book and the references are often apt, but they’re incredibly overused and cliché. Such a law would do a great deal to force people to read or talk about other pertinent books. Call it The BRADBURY Act (Bringing a Reasonable Amount of Different Books… um… Under Review… uh… every Year).

lelanthran 3y ago
> It’s a great book and the references are often apt, but they’re incredibly overused and cliché. No that overused, it appears. Look at how man replies didn't know what the source material was. If 1984 and Animal Farm was still required reading in HS, we'd have a very different population. One, I expect, that would be more critical of thoughtcrime and revisionist history than of imaginary boogeymen.

danjc 3y ago

It would be interesting to see the count of 1984 references per year in HN comments here. Almost sure there's a steady YoY increase. Unfortunately it's so prescient it's no longer helpful to reference it.

flippinburgers 3y ago

Certainly now that history can be rewritten literally in an instant by something like chatgpt means that we are indeed no longer going to know what happened in the past. Granted we haven't ever really known with much certainty, but now complete rewrites are a keypress away.