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All of your points are valid, but I think you miss the main one, which Clarkson nailed: electric cars will go mainstream when they don't take three hours for a

All of your points are valid, but I think you miss the main one, which Clarkson nailed: electric cars will go mainstream when they don't take three hours for a "quick" charge. They already have the range of gas-powered cars (~300 miles for the S), but once you hit that, you're stuck. It makes long-distance trips onerous, if not impossible. Anyway, they're getting cheaper all the time, batteries are getting better, and when you can convincingly pitch the TCO as being less than a gas car, you'll start to see people jump on it. Infrastructure will follow from there.

nsxwolf 15y ago
That's a good point too, but I actually think charging time is the one downside car owners wouldn't mind getting used to, if the rest of the issues were solved. With a decent range, say 200+ miles, planning for a 3 hour charge isn't too terrible a shift. Long distance travel is another story. Charging stations at rest stops and restaurants would be a big help there, but I'm worried that the premature installation of those GE power stations, which have been subsequently torn out in many places, have left a bad taste in the mouths of people who can make that happen.
- webjprgm 15y ago
  Long distance travel is the primary reason I have not wanted to buy an electric car. I only have one car at the moment, so I need it to be good both for commuting and long distance. I can make a 12 hour trip from SF to UT or 7 hr SF to LA. With an electric you add in 3hrs * 2 going to UT and 3hrs * 1 going to LA. That totally changes travel plans because I'd have to stop for the night or else push through on nothing but uncomfortable naps in the car during the charge cycles. So electric is out. If I had 2 cars (if I didn't live in a small apartment complex, and if I had a bunch of kids so I needed a separate van or something) then I'd have one electric for commuting and one gas for road trips.
  - lutorm 15y ago
    This is the market for a series hybrid.
whatusername 15y ago
So Better Place and their switchable Car Batteries then? http://www.betterplace.com.au/drivers/solution-for-drivers/driver-wherever-you-want-whenever-you-want.html http://www.betterplace.com.au/drivers/solution-for-drivers/d...
- nsxwolf 15y ago
  That would be fantastic.
  - whatusername 15y ago
    I really hope they come through with it. It sounds like such a clever model. // Although some of the dates seem to be slipping (ie - the 2011 Canberra roll-out)
mncolinlee 15y ago
Clarkson is professionally paid to be an elitist fool. Most Europeans already believe 300 miles range and room for eight passengers is a luxury. Why? Their gasoline costs about twice as much per liter/gallon. Their automakers build mostly hatchbacks to match demand. It's rare to even see a large van on the roads. When you see an SUV/crossover in Europe, it's the sign of a wealthy person who lives to excess. As I pointed out in my article, ten minute chargers are only five to ten years from commercial release. You can charge your Nissan Leaf from 0 to 80% in 25 minutes using today's Level 3 charger without waiting for any new technology. That'd be ~45 minutes for a Tesla Model S. If gasoline prices predictably rise and it only takes as much time to top up at the local mall as it takes to stop there for a latte and a sandwich, you'd be a fool to not own an electric vehicle.
- nsxwolf 15y ago
  That charger is $10,000. About the cost of 208 fill-ups in my Mazda in the Chicagoland area. I fill up once every other week. The Leaf already costs double what my car does. We're not quite at the point where this makes sense.
  - mncolinlee 15y ago
    Indeed. I won't pay $10k for one of those chargers. Car dealers, shopping malls, and Starbucks will. I'm getting a Level 2 charger because I don't need thirty minute charges at home when the car spends all night in a garage anyway.
- obilgic 15y ago
  That is so true. But the thing is most europeans do not have garages next to their house. They just park their cars on street. I am curious about how they will handle charging system.
mncolinlee 15y ago
Clarkson goes way out of the way to stage cases where electric cars fail. Then he gets caught red-handed. The guy has no responsibility to the truth. His program is pure entertainment, not a scientific case study, and should be enjoyed as such. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug/05/top-gear-bbc http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug...
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  Oh, I know he's anti-electric, anti-environment, pro-seal clubbing, etc. That doesn't detract from the fact, however, that he has a point about charge times. Also, Tesla complained about that episode, and Top Gear responded that everything shown was an accurate portrayal of how it went. Who you choose to believe, I suspect, has a great deal to do with the distance between one's home and SV. As for me, I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Top Gear regularly embellishes for the purposes of entertainment, but I find it highly unlikely that they would flat-out make shit up just to slag a particular company.
  - Tossrock 15y ago
    Well, considering Tesla engineers showed that the battery levels never dropped below 20% for the duration the cars were on loan, I think it's a pretty open and shut case?
tadfisher 15y ago
How about a towable electric generator for long trips? It could run on diesel, gasoline, ethanol, or whatever.

nsxwolf 15y ago

That's a good point too, but I actually think charging time is the one downside car owners wouldn't mind getting used to, if the rest of the issues were solved. With a decent range, say 200+ miles, planning for a 3 hour charge isn't too terrible a shift. Long distance travel is another story. Charging stations at rest stops and restaurants would be a big help there, but I'm worried that the premature installation of those GE power stations, which have been subsequently torn out in many places, have left a bad taste in the mouths of people who can make that happen.

webjprgm 15y ago
Long distance travel is the primary reason I have not wanted to buy an electric car. I only have one car at the moment, so I need it to be good both for commuting and long distance. I can make a 12 hour trip from SF to UT or 7 hr SF to LA. With an electric you add in 3hrs * 2 going to UT and 3hrs * 1 going to LA. That totally changes travel plans because I'd have to stop for the night or else push through on nothing but uncomfortable naps in the car during the charge cycles. So electric is out. If I had 2 cars (if I didn't live in a small apartment complex, and if I had a bunch of kids so I needed a separate van or something) then I'd have one electric for commuting and one gas for road trips.
- lutorm 15y ago
  This is the market for a series hybrid.

whatusername 15y ago

So Better Place and their switchable Car Batteries then? http://www.betterplace.com.au/drivers/solution-for-drivers/driver-wherever-you-want-whenever-you-want.html http://www.betterplace.com.au/drivers/solution-for-drivers/d...

nsxwolf 15y ago
That would be fantastic.
- whatusername 15y ago
  I really hope they come through with it. It sounds like such a clever model. // Although some of the dates seem to be slipping (ie - the 2011 Canberra roll-out)

mncolinlee 15y ago

Clarkson is professionally paid to be an elitist fool. Most Europeans already believe 300 miles range and room for eight passengers is a luxury. Why? Their gasoline costs about twice as much per liter/gallon. Their automakers build mostly hatchbacks to match demand. It's rare to even see a large van on the roads. When you see an SUV/crossover in Europe, it's the sign of a wealthy person who lives to excess. As I pointed out in my article, ten minute chargers are only five to ten years from commercial release. You can charge your Nissan Leaf from 0 to 80% in 25 minutes using today's Level 3 charger without waiting for any new technology. That'd be ~45 minutes for a Tesla Model S. If gasoline prices predictably rise and it only takes as much time to top up at the local mall as it takes to stop there for a latte and a sandwich, you'd be a fool to not own an electric vehicle.

nsxwolf 15y ago
That charger is $10,000. About the cost of 208 fill-ups in my Mazda in the Chicagoland area. I fill up once every other week. The Leaf already costs double what my car does. We're not quite at the point where this makes sense.
- mncolinlee 15y ago
  Indeed. I won't pay $10k for one of those chargers. Car dealers, shopping malls, and Starbucks will. I'm getting a Level 2 charger because I don't need thirty minute charges at home when the car spends all night in a garage anyway.
obilgic 15y ago
That is so true. But the thing is most europeans do not have garages next to their house. They just park their cars on street. I am curious about how they will handle charging system.

mncolinlee 15y ago

Clarkson goes way out of the way to stage cases where electric cars fail. Then he gets caught red-handed. The guy has no responsibility to the truth. His program is pure entertainment, not a scientific case study, and should be enjoyed as such. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug/05/top-gear-bbc http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug...

redthrowaway 15y ago
Oh, I know he's anti-electric, anti-environment, pro-seal clubbing, etc. That doesn't detract from the fact, however, that he has a point about charge times. Also, Tesla complained about that episode, and Top Gear responded that everything shown was an accurate portrayal of how it went. Who you choose to believe, I suspect, has a great deal to do with the distance between one's home and SV. As for me, I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Top Gear regularly embellishes for the purposes of entertainment, but I find it highly unlikely that they would flat-out make shit up just to slag a particular company.
- Tossrock 15y ago
  Well, considering Tesla engineers showed that the battery levels never dropped below 20% for the duration the cars were on loan, I think it's a pretty open and shut case?

tadfisher 15y ago

How about a towable electric generator for long trips? It could run on diesel, gasoline, ethanol, or whatever.