4 ms·

Why not have haptic feedback like in phones

emodendroket 3y ago
It's only a partial solution. You can feel a button without operating it and you can distinguish it among others by feel.
neuronic 3y ago
Every button with major function can have different surfaces and haptics according to function. After driving a car for a week or two I typically get really good at just using buttons without looking. But that's just subjective. The VW ID.3s I drive I can only change stuff at red lights or parking spots because of the terrible UX mixed with the downsides of touchscreens. Also regular freezing and crashes. I would be curious to see a well implemented, fast response touchscreen design. I am strongly in favor of buttons but I would love to try a touchscreen operating with the boundaries set by users in this thread (16ms reposne time etc...). I will keep an open mind but have not seen a working example yet.
fps_doug 3y ago
That solves that one problem, but you still get the feedback only when you pressed it, you cannot feel where the button is without looking. I can blindly turn the AC on or off, adjust the fan speed, turn on the hazard lights and adjust the volume of the radio in my car, because it's all good old buttons and knobs. How is that supposed to work with a touch screen?
GuB-42 3y ago
Because haptics "like in phones" suck. They are nothing but vibration motors. There have been a lot of research of patents for more interesting interaction, but what we have now is arguable worse than what we had in a Nokia 3310 (because of the lower mass of the motors). The feedback is like if the entire screen was a single button. Haptic tech I have seen are ways to vary the drag coefficient across the screen, tiny actuators that deform the screen, or use of interference to create vibration on a specific location. There is even touchless haptics, using ultrasound. The only instance where a manufacturer seemed to care was with the iPhone 6 "Taptic Engine", which is little more than a better vibration motor, giving a better "whole screen button" effect. But they didn't improve further, in fact, if anything, the newer models are worse.
- rkangel 3y ago
  The haptics in the trackpads for the Steam Deck are pretty good. They manage to communicate textures and boundaries on the trackpad. They're not magical, but they are a bit step above anything I've used anywhere else.
naravara 3y ago
It's an additional potential point of failure that will be expensive to fix. Phones generally have a usable life of 2 to 5 years before people start hankering to upgrade. Cars ought to last at least 8 to 10, and ideally closer to 20. I know car designers don't actually think this way, but it would be nice if they did put more thought into making sure every part of it is easy to repair or built to last for that whole stretch instead of trying to put new-car buyers on an upgrade treadmill and telling used-car buyers to suck it up and deal.

It's only a partial solution. You can feel a button without operating it and you can distinguish it among others by feel.

neuronic 3y ago

Every button with major function can have different surfaces and haptics according to function. After driving a car for a week or two I typically get really good at just using buttons without looking. But that's just subjective. The VW ID.3s I drive I can only change stuff at red lights or parking spots because of the terrible UX mixed with the downsides of touchscreens. Also regular freezing and crashes. I would be curious to see a well implemented, fast response touchscreen design. I am strongly in favor of buttons but I would love to try a touchscreen operating with the boundaries set by users in this thread (16ms reposne time etc...). I will keep an open mind but have not seen a working example yet.

fps_doug 3y ago

That solves that one problem, but you still get the feedback only when you pressed it, you cannot feel where the button is without looking. I can blindly turn the AC on or off, adjust the fan speed, turn on the hazard lights and adjust the volume of the radio in my car, because it's all good old buttons and knobs. How is that supposed to work with a touch screen?

GuB-42 3y ago

Because haptics "like in phones" suck. They are nothing but vibration motors. There have been a lot of research of patents for more interesting interaction, but what we have now is arguable worse than what we had in a Nokia 3310 (because of the lower mass of the motors). The feedback is like if the entire screen was a single button. Haptic tech I have seen are ways to vary the drag coefficient across the screen, tiny actuators that deform the screen, or use of interference to create vibration on a specific location. There is even touchless haptics, using ultrasound. The only instance where a manufacturer seemed to care was with the iPhone 6 "Taptic Engine", which is little more than a better vibration motor, giving a better "whole screen button" effect. But they didn't improve further, in fact, if anything, the newer models are worse.

rkangel 3y ago
The haptics in the trackpads for the Steam Deck are pretty good. They manage to communicate textures and boundaries on the trackpad. They're not magical, but they are a bit step above anything I've used anywhere else.

naravara 3y ago

It's an additional potential point of failure that will be expensive to fix. Phones generally have a usable life of 2 to 5 years before people start hankering to upgrade. Cars ought to last at least 8 to 10, and ideally closer to 20. I know car designers don't actually think this way, but it would be nice if they did put more thought into making sure every part of it is easy to repair or built to last for that whole stretch instead of trying to put new-car buyers on an upgrade treadmill and telling used-car buyers to suck it up and deal.