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by epups 3y ago

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dang 3y ago
You broke the site guidelines egregiously here. We ban accounts that do this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for, and we have to ban accounts that do it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Edit: you posted dozens of ideological battle comments in this thread. That's not cool, and we ban accounts that do it. Please avoid such flamewars in the future, regardless of how strongly you feel or how wrong others are or you feel they are.
- smcl 3y ago
  >> To call PT a communist organization is just another laughably stupid conspiracy theory. > There are videos of Lula saying his plan is to literally implement socialism in Brazil You know those are not the same thing right?
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    I know, I just don't care. To me they're both synonymous with misery, famine, rationing, forced labor under penalty of death and mass genocide when people inevitably revolt. If people are so big on banning destructive ideologies, one would think they'd start with this one. Since these communists are allowed to walk the soil of my country unimpeded and not only hold political office but have literal organized undeniably communist political parties with communism in the name like the Communist Party of Brazil, I have no ideological objection to extending the same freedoms to literal nazis and fascists either. They're all the same to me, I don't see any reason to prefer one over the other.
    - smcl 3y ago
      What I think is that you know just enough history to be able to loosely connect the word "socialism" with Bad Things (common ones being that both NSDAP and USSR had "socialist" in their name, or that Venezuela is "socialist") and you're incurious enough ("I know, I just don't care") to not bother understanding whether that's true, how any of those Bad Things actually came to be, whether that was due to anything related to "socialism" or even what that word actually means. Doesn't bother me either way, but if you consider yourself a smart or informed person then you're doing yourself a disservice by not actually understanding any of this.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        I wasn't about to give socialists the benefit of the doubt, especially not in this thread where people actually created sockpuppet accounts just to call me a "bolsonaro minion" who needs to move to Afghanistan. You seem to be posting in good faith though. I believe socialism inevitably leads to oppressive totalitarian states. Simply because nobody wants to work for no reward. People must be forced into such slavery and that's inevitably what happens. It's what's happened every time it was tried. Because the alternative is starvation. The only way that could possibly work is if nobody had to work. That's only possible if there's abundance instead of scarcity. If there's no scarcity, then there is no need to economize. In other words, real socialism is actually a fully automated economy-less post-scarcity society. Brazil is so ridiculously far from that ideal that it's comical to even suggest implanting socialism here. Comical. The damage caused by that idea is worse than literal nazis roaming free. These people have infiltrated every school, every university.
- epups 3y ago
  > There are videos of Lula saying his plan is to literally implement socialism in Brazil. There are videos of him preaching ideas like having the government give everyone what they need to "survive". That's literally the ideology of every social democratic party in Europe (and most center right as well). They are not communists, and neither is Lula.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    https://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2010/05/presidente-altera-trechos-polemicos-do-plano-de-direitos-humanos.html https://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2010/05/presidente-alt... Relativization of private property: you own land, someone invades your land and settles on it and you're forced to "mediate" with the invaders before being afforded access to the justice system. Regulation of all media and communications, censorship in case of "abuse" and even a government ranking of media channels based on how much they conform to "human rights". Prohibition of religious symbols in public. Taxation of fortunes because entrepreneurship in Brazil apparently wasn't difficult enough. Do european political parties really push shit like this?
- dormento 3y ago
  > There are videos of him preaching ideas like having the government give everyone what they need to "survive" Oh no! People should _not_ have what they need to survive. Anything but that! I mean, won't somebody think of the investors?
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    Oh please. Get a job instead of expecting the government to hand it out to you.

[flagged]

by epups 3y ago

[flagged]

dang 3y ago

You broke the site guidelines egregiously here. We ban accounts that do this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

[flagged]

dang 3y ago
Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for, and we have to ban accounts that do it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Edit: you posted dozens of ideological battle comments in this thread. That's not cool, and we ban accounts that do it. Please avoid such flamewars in the future, regardless of how strongly you feel or how wrong others are or you feel they are.
smcl 3y ago
>> To call PT a communist organization is just another laughably stupid conspiracy theory. > There are videos of Lula saying his plan is to literally implement socialism in Brazil You know those are not the same thing right?
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  I know, I just don't care. To me they're both synonymous with misery, famine, rationing, forced labor under penalty of death and mass genocide when people inevitably revolt. If people are so big on banning destructive ideologies, one would think they'd start with this one. Since these communists are allowed to walk the soil of my country unimpeded and not only hold political office but have literal organized undeniably communist political parties with communism in the name like the Communist Party of Brazil, I have no ideological objection to extending the same freedoms to literal nazis and fascists either. They're all the same to me, I don't see any reason to prefer one over the other.
  - smcl 3y ago
    What I think is that you know just enough history to be able to loosely connect the word "socialism" with Bad Things (common ones being that both NSDAP and USSR had "socialist" in their name, or that Venezuela is "socialist") and you're incurious enough ("I know, I just don't care") to not bother understanding whether that's true, how any of those Bad Things actually came to be, whether that was due to anything related to "socialism" or even what that word actually means. Doesn't bother me either way, but if you consider yourself a smart or informed person then you're doing yourself a disservice by not actually understanding any of this.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      I wasn't about to give socialists the benefit of the doubt, especially not in this thread where people actually created sockpuppet accounts just to call me a "bolsonaro minion" who needs to move to Afghanistan. You seem to be posting in good faith though. I believe socialism inevitably leads to oppressive totalitarian states. Simply because nobody wants to work for no reward. People must be forced into such slavery and that's inevitably what happens. It's what's happened every time it was tried. Because the alternative is starvation. The only way that could possibly work is if nobody had to work. That's only possible if there's abundance instead of scarcity. If there's no scarcity, then there is no need to economize. In other words, real socialism is actually a fully automated economy-less post-scarcity society. Brazil is so ridiculously far from that ideal that it's comical to even suggest implanting socialism here. Comical. The damage caused by that idea is worse than literal nazis roaming free. These people have infiltrated every school, every university.
epups 3y ago
> There are videos of Lula saying his plan is to literally implement socialism in Brazil. There are videos of him preaching ideas like having the government give everyone what they need to "survive". That's literally the ideology of every social democratic party in Europe (and most center right as well). They are not communists, and neither is Lula.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  https://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2010/05/presidente-altera-trechos-polemicos-do-plano-de-direitos-humanos.html https://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2010/05/presidente-alt... Relativization of private property: you own land, someone invades your land and settles on it and you're forced to "mediate" with the invaders before being afforded access to the justice system. Regulation of all media and communications, censorship in case of "abuse" and even a government ranking of media channels based on how much they conform to "human rights". Prohibition of religious symbols in public. Taxation of fortunes because entrepreneurship in Brazil apparently wasn't difficult enough. Do european political parties really push shit like this?
dormento 3y ago
> There are videos of him preaching ideas like having the government give everyone what they need to "survive" Oh no! People should _not_ have what they need to survive. Anything but that! I mean, won't somebody think of the investors?
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Oh please. Get a job instead of expecting the government to hand it out to you.