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Emergent just means that it's not the basic building block; it's made up of other, more fundamental things. So for example thermodynamics is emergent (even thou

Emergent just means that it's not the basic building block; it's made up of other, more fundamental things. So for example thermodynamics is emergent (even though it is fully studied and relatively well understood) because it arises from interactions of particles. If you say that spacetime is emergent that is a big deal: it means that, while it can be studied on its own, it's actually composed of other, more fundamental things. But you still need to show that a) this other fundamental thing actually exists, and b) we can show mathematically how the spacetime works, in terms of those other fundamental thing (just like you can show how thermodynamics works in terms of statistical mechanics) And that's where your "because you don't know how it works" thing breaks apart: one can't claim to have solved this problem without tacking b).

nemo44x 4y ago
> it's made up of other, more fundamental things Then explain those things and prove they exist. Otherwise this just sounds like bullshit. There’s a difference between observing thermodynamics (and not trying to answer why but rather how we observe it - big difference!) and writing equations we can measure and just saying “it’s emergent” to “…” things we are unable to answer “I don’t know to”.
- doctor_eval 4y ago
  That seems to be exactly what they are trying to do: > Lee Smolin is working on an idea where the building blocks are events where momentum is exchanged.Space, and hence position, is an emergent phenomena. It’s perfectly OK to speculate that perhaps gravity, say, is not fundamental, but instead emerges from interactions or whatever at a lower layer that we haven’t yet identified. What word would you use?
- Maursault 4y ago
  > Otherwise this just sounds like bullshit? Yet it is very compelling bullshit that stands up to intense scientific scrutiny.[1] [1] https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a11332.html https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a11332.html

nemo44x 4y ago

> it's made up of other, more fundamental things Then explain those things and prove they exist. Otherwise this just sounds like bullshit. There’s a difference between observing thermodynamics (and not trying to answer why but rather how we observe it - big difference!) and writing equations we can measure and just saying “it’s emergent” to “…” things we are unable to answer “I don’t know to”.

doctor_eval 4y ago
That seems to be exactly what they are trying to do: > Lee Smolin is working on an idea where the building blocks are events where momentum is exchanged.Space, and hence position, is an emergent phenomena. It’s perfectly OK to speculate that perhaps gravity, say, is not fundamental, but instead emerges from interactions or whatever at a lower layer that we haven’t yet identified. What word would you use?
Maursault 4y ago
> Otherwise this just sounds like bullshit? Yet it is very compelling bullshit that stands up to intense scientific scrutiny.[1] [1] https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a11332.html https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a11332.html