4 ms·

That still just sounds like people not knowing what they're doing. In no world would automakers say, "Hey you know, we just did all of this tire engineering wi

That still just sounds like people not knowing what they're doing. In no world would automakers say, "Hey you know, we just did all of this tire engineering with this rubber, but let's change the composition at the last minute and not retest all of its physical properties." So, why should it be any different with software? Because some sucker PM didn't have the brains to say, "We can't actually do that."?

teeray 4y ago
It feels like there’s some derision towards the infotainment software engineering since it’s perceived as not safety critical. It’s in the name, “infotainment”! Fun and optional! It’s not like you’re working on the PFD/MFD/EICAS on an Airbus. “So what, the seat heater button lags sometimes. Not gonna kill someone like the tires. Ship it” says some MBA higher-up. But then the seats kick on automatically when the car starts and the driver tucks in with her morning coffee for a commute down the highway. The coffee kicks in, the cabin heats up, and suddenly that warm seat is like sitting on a griddle. She taps on the menu to bring up the seat controls, then lag, then has to hit the seat heat button twice to go from “high” to “low” to “off”, lagging each time. Oh, she hit it three times, now it’s on high again. Tap, tap, tap, tap… Meanwhile she has crossed three lanes of traffic and is staring down a jersey barrier at 70+ mph.
switchbak 4y ago
I know you're getting a lot of pushback here, but you're totally right. Qt (among others) has been a thing in the embedded space for decades, and we've had snappy UIs on sub gigahertz CPUs for decades. I just don't buy that's it's a matter of under specced hardware. I'd actually buy that it's more a matter of the corporate sausage making machine that turns ok hardware and talented developers with good intentions into an output of barely usable poorly performing crap. Ie: exactly how we end up with something like Spotify.
- hikawaii 4y ago
  The corporate sausage making machine is merely only doing what it's customers want, for the price they'll pay, nothing more, nothing less. A lot of these are good impulses but also feel like an unfunded mandate, like rear back up cameras being mandatory - obligating everyone pay a thousand dollars more every year. The feel good comes from the DOT, the cost gets paid by the customer.
- pySSK 4y ago
  > I'd actually buy that it's more a matter of the corporate sausage making machine This. The devs don't have a say in the tech stack. The decsion is usually outsourced to the lowest bidder. Other than Tesla and Rivian, I can't think of any OEMs that I've dealt with who have full control over control over their display. Almost everyone outsources it to the Koreans who have a lock on that market – i.e. OEMs send in their designs but it's actually implemented by LG, Samsung etc. From what I've seen, any changes or new additions to any on-screen components has a 2 year lead-time unless (not a typo) it's safety critical or catastrophic in some other way.
pySSK 4y ago
It's not that that the sucker program manager doesn't have the brains, or at least less so than PMs in other fields. It's that the PMs in automotive are not empowered to say that. There are 7-8 layers of management above them, all of whom are being shat on by the layer above them, and there's a greater disincentive to causing delays to a vastly interconnected program vs. staying in their lane and polishing the turd they've been assigned the best they can. Another big problem is a very high employee turnover and there is no redundancy in roles and skillsets because of severe cost cutting through the ages. Tech is chosen by senior engineers but vision, knowledge and experience are lost and implementation suffers every time anyone moves companies. My company has been working on an automotive project for the last 3.5 years. I deal with around 10 people on at least a weekly basis. Out of those 10, only one was around at the start of the project. We're also working with another Tier 1, where only 2 out the 12 have been around for 3 years.

teeray 4y ago

It feels like there’s some derision towards the infotainment software engineering since it’s perceived as not safety critical. It’s in the name, “infotainment”! Fun and optional! It’s not like you’re working on the PFD/MFD/EICAS on an Airbus. “So what, the seat heater button lags sometimes. Not gonna kill someone like the tires. Ship it” says some MBA higher-up. But then the seats kick on automatically when the car starts and the driver tucks in with her morning coffee for a commute down the highway. The coffee kicks in, the cabin heats up, and suddenly that warm seat is like sitting on a griddle. She taps on the menu to bring up the seat controls, then lag, then has to hit the seat heat button twice to go from “high” to “low” to “off”, lagging each time. Oh, she hit it three times, now it’s on high again. Tap, tap, tap, tap… Meanwhile she has crossed three lanes of traffic and is staring down a jersey barrier at 70+ mph.

switchbak 4y ago

I know you're getting a lot of pushback here, but you're totally right. Qt (among others) has been a thing in the embedded space for decades, and we've had snappy UIs on sub gigahertz CPUs for decades. I just don't buy that's it's a matter of under specced hardware. I'd actually buy that it's more a matter of the corporate sausage making machine that turns ok hardware and talented developers with good intentions into an output of barely usable poorly performing crap. Ie: exactly how we end up with something like Spotify.

hikawaii 4y ago
The corporate sausage making machine is merely only doing what it's customers want, for the price they'll pay, nothing more, nothing less. A lot of these are good impulses but also feel like an unfunded mandate, like rear back up cameras being mandatory - obligating everyone pay a thousand dollars more every year. The feel good comes from the DOT, the cost gets paid by the customer.
pySSK 4y ago
> I'd actually buy that it's more a matter of the corporate sausage making machine This. The devs don't have a say in the tech stack. The decsion is usually outsourced to the lowest bidder. Other than Tesla and Rivian, I can't think of any OEMs that I've dealt with who have full control over control over their display. Almost everyone outsources it to the Koreans who have a lock on that market – i.e. OEMs send in their designs but it's actually implemented by LG, Samsung etc. From what I've seen, any changes or new additions to any on-screen components has a 2 year lead-time unless (not a typo) it's safety critical or catastrophic in some other way.

pySSK 4y ago

It's not that that the sucker program manager doesn't have the brains, or at least less so than PMs in other fields. It's that the PMs in automotive are not empowered to say that. There are 7-8 layers of management above them, all of whom are being shat on by the layer above them, and there's a greater disincentive to causing delays to a vastly interconnected program vs. staying in their lane and polishing the turd they've been assigned the best they can. Another big problem is a very high employee turnover and there is no redundancy in roles and skillsets because of severe cost cutting through the ages. Tech is chosen by senior engineers but vision, knowledge and experience are lost and implementation suffers every time anyone moves companies. My company has been working on an automotive project for the last 3.5 years. I deal with around 10 people on at least a weekly basis. Out of those 10, only one was around at the start of the project. We're also working with another Tier 1, where only 2 out the 12 have been around for 3 years.