4 ms·

Did back up cameras save that many lives?

mikestew 4y ago
It's not always about lives saved. In the scenario that backup cameras help prevent, the vehicle isn't going very fast. And kids are small. That doesn't mean kids don't get seriously injured as a result. I've known three people that have been backed over, myself included (and that's just the ones I know; I don't survey everyone I meet). Minor injuries for two of them, very-much-not-minor injuries to myself that I deal with decades later.
CGamesPlay 4y ago
No, but it's still the law. By 2054 (31 years from now), the NHSTA's estimates say it will save less than 2000 lives. https://www.extremetech.com/cars/179635-car-backup-cameras-are-now-mandatory-okay-for-saving-lives-even-better-for-music-and-navigation https://www.extremetech.com/cars/179635-car-backup-cameras-a...
- donalhunt 4y ago
  What's the serious injuries figure? Road safety initiatives care about preventing deaths AND serious injuries.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  What about pets? And injuries? Wouldn't imagine a reversal killing most healthy adults, so the fatality rate isn't a great measure
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
ambicapter 4y ago
I assume somebody's kid got ran over by a parent backing up into them and they then channeled their guilt and grief into lobbying for such a law.
- rsync 4y ago
  "After His Son’s Tragic Death, This Doctor Fought to Put Backup Cameras In Every Car"[1] "He had gone under the vehicle, I had gone right over his head and killed him. I jumped out of the car, tried to do CPR.” Gulbransen can still taste his blood in his mouth, remembers the way Cameron bled from his nose, his ears. “I knew at that moment he was dead.”" [1] https://www.kidsandcars.org/2018/05/14/after-his-sons-tragic-death-this-doctor-fought-to-put-backup-cameras-in-every-car/ https://www.kidsandcars.org/2018/05/14/after-his-sons-tragic...
  - mr_november 4y ago
    Completely unnecessary and upsetting quote. If you must, just link it with some background instead of quoting a sensationalized headline.
    - DonHopkins 4y ago
      You're really more upset at him for quoting a doctor who accidentally killed his own kid then fought to make backup cameras mandatory, than at the auto industry and regulators who fought against backup cameras for 15 years? Just whose sensitive feelings are you trying to protect with such censorship, and why? Did reading that upsetting quote ruin your day as much as backing over and killing your own kid would? Some times you just have to upset people to affect change. Do you also oppose quoting grieving parents to pass gun control laws too? If you feel so strongly about it, then instead of just telling people to shut up, why not spend 15 years of your own life trying to pass a bill and enforce government regulations to prohibit quoting grieving parents -- maybe they'll name it after you. >But while King and then-Senator Hillary Clinton got on board early, automobile maker resistance made sure that results came slow. King and Clinton introduced backover safety legislation in Congress and the Senate in 2005 and Congress enacted the Cameron Gulbransen Kids Transportation Safety Act in 2008 requiring federal transportation officials to write a regulation to correct vehicle rear visibility problems. President George Bush signed the bill into law. But the the bill languished, thanks to the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. https://associationsnow.com/2018/05/advocacy-battle-behind-rearview-cameras-cars/ https://associationsnow.com/2018/05/advocacy-battle-behind-r... >The Advocacy Battle Behind Rearview Cameras in Cars Tragic "backover" accidents involving young children gave advocacy groups a reason to push for a law requiring the use of rearview cameras. This week, federal regulations will require the devices in every new car on the road—a decade after the law was passed. >[...] “I’m a pediatrician, I baby-proof my house, I go out of my way to make sure children are safe and healthy,” Gulbransen said in a recent interview with WABC. “And it happened to me? OK, guess what? It can happen to anybody. So use my example. I own it, I took responsibility, here it is. Let’s channel our grief and get something productive done out of it.” >[...] “It took a long time, and sadly, along that journey, we had more families joining us in our fight because they had lost their children while knowing there is this preventable technology,” Cathy Chase, president of Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, told the Los Angeles Times. “It’s heartbreaking.”
im3w1l 4y ago
My guess would be that it faced little resistance as those cameras have many other benefits than saving lives.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  No, it faced a huge amount of resistance, took about 5 years to pass a law, then about 10 years for the regulators to actually enforce it. Exactly like sane and popular gun control laws to prevent thousands of childrens' tragic deaths per year from guns face fanatical well funded resistance from insane and corrupt institutions like the NRA and GOP. Childhood’s Greatest Danger: The Data on Kids and Gun Violence: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-... 'Misfire' takes a hard look at nepotism, fraud and corruption in the NRA: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/02/1051363337/misfire-takes-a-hard-look-at-nepotism-fraud-and-corruption-in-the-nra https://www.npr.org/2021/11/02/1051363337/misfire-takes-a-ha...
sundvor 4y ago
Start paying attention to driveway deaths involving little children, and you might wish a retrofit mandate of existing cars was already in place.
- berkes 4y ago
  > driveway deaths involving little children, This leaves me with so many questions: * Why is this not an (actively discussed) issue in the EU? * Does this issue exist in other countries than the US? * If the problem is real, is a camera the only, or even best solution?
  - Night_Thastus 4y ago
    The reason actually ties into another US problem - the proliferation of very large SUVs, Crossovers and Pickups. These gigantic cars have a significant problem seeing things close to them, especially if they're small like little kids. This is why backup cameras are so crucial in the US, but not nearly as much in other countries. Those huge cars need them for safety. For smaller cars (sedans, coups, hatchbacks) the benefit is a lot less.
    - sundvor 4y ago
      There's still too many involving normal sedans, at least in Australia. And modern sedans are sacrificing visibility for aerodynamics / fuel efficiency. So having them being blanket mandatory is the only sane thing. They are still not a guarantee against these incidents, I personally added backup sensors to my previous car - a Subaru Outback. They saved me from reversing into another car that had kind of snuck up on me once. The Tesla Model 3 (Ryzen '22 w/radar edition) is far, far superior in all aspects of safety when reversing now. Both a huge responsive massive FOV screen with side displays and the ultrasonic sensors beeping.
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Few that wouldn't have been saved by Suburbans and Excursions going out of vogue with the upper middle class in favor of 4Runner, Pilots and a myriad of crossovers.

It's not always about lives saved. In the scenario that backup cameras help prevent, the vehicle isn't going very fast. And kids are small. That doesn't mean kids don't get seriously injured as a result. I've known three people that have been backed over, myself included (and that's just the ones I know; I don't survey everyone I meet). Minor injuries for two of them, very-much-not-minor injuries to myself that I deal with decades later.

CGamesPlay 4y ago

No, but it's still the law. By 2054 (31 years from now), the NHSTA's estimates say it will save less than 2000 lives. https://www.extremetech.com/cars/179635-car-backup-cameras-are-now-mandatory-okay-for-saving-lives-even-better-for-music-and-navigation https://www.extremetech.com/cars/179635-car-backup-cameras-a...

donalhunt 4y ago
What's the serious injuries figure? Road safety initiatives care about preventing deaths AND serious injuries.
hackernewds 4y ago
What about pets? And injuries? Wouldn't imagine a reversal killing most healthy adults, so the fatality rate isn't a great measure
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

ambicapter 4y ago

I assume somebody's kid got ran over by a parent backing up into them and they then channeled their guilt and grief into lobbying for such a law.

rsync 4y ago
"After His Son’s Tragic Death, This Doctor Fought to Put Backup Cameras In Every Car"[1] "He had gone under the vehicle, I had gone right over his head and killed him. I jumped out of the car, tried to do CPR.” Gulbransen can still taste his blood in his mouth, remembers the way Cameron bled from his nose, his ears. “I knew at that moment he was dead.”" [1] https://www.kidsandcars.org/2018/05/14/after-his-sons-tragic-death-this-doctor-fought-to-put-backup-cameras-in-every-car/ https://www.kidsandcars.org/2018/05/14/after-his-sons-tragic...
- mr_november 4y ago
  Completely unnecessary and upsetting quote. If you must, just link it with some background instead of quoting a sensationalized headline.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
    You're really more upset at him for quoting a doctor who accidentally killed his own kid then fought to make backup cameras mandatory, than at the auto industry and regulators who fought against backup cameras for 15 years? Just whose sensitive feelings are you trying to protect with such censorship, and why? Did reading that upsetting quote ruin your day as much as backing over and killing your own kid would? Some times you just have to upset people to affect change. Do you also oppose quoting grieving parents to pass gun control laws too? If you feel so strongly about it, then instead of just telling people to shut up, why not spend 15 years of your own life trying to pass a bill and enforce government regulations to prohibit quoting grieving parents -- maybe they'll name it after you. >But while King and then-Senator Hillary Clinton got on board early, automobile maker resistance made sure that results came slow. King and Clinton introduced backover safety legislation in Congress and the Senate in 2005 and Congress enacted the Cameron Gulbransen Kids Transportation Safety Act in 2008 requiring federal transportation officials to write a regulation to correct vehicle rear visibility problems. President George Bush signed the bill into law. But the the bill languished, thanks to the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. https://associationsnow.com/2018/05/advocacy-battle-behind-rearview-cameras-cars/ https://associationsnow.com/2018/05/advocacy-battle-behind-r... >The Advocacy Battle Behind Rearview Cameras in Cars Tragic "backover" accidents involving young children gave advocacy groups a reason to push for a law requiring the use of rearview cameras. This week, federal regulations will require the devices in every new car on the road—a decade after the law was passed. >[...] “I’m a pediatrician, I baby-proof my house, I go out of my way to make sure children are safe and healthy,” Gulbransen said in a recent interview with WABC. “And it happened to me? OK, guess what? It can happen to anybody. So use my example. I own it, I took responsibility, here it is. Let’s channel our grief and get something productive done out of it.” >[...] “It took a long time, and sadly, along that journey, we had more families joining us in our fight because they had lost their children while knowing there is this preventable technology,” Cathy Chase, president of Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, told the Los Angeles Times. “It’s heartbreaking.”

im3w1l 4y ago

My guess would be that it faced little resistance as those cameras have many other benefits than saving lives.

DonHopkins 4y ago
No, it faced a huge amount of resistance, took about 5 years to pass a law, then about 10 years for the regulators to actually enforce it. Exactly like sane and popular gun control laws to prevent thousands of childrens' tragic deaths per year from guns face fanatical well funded resistance from insane and corrupt institutions like the NRA and GOP. Childhood’s Greatest Danger: The Data on Kids and Gun Violence: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-... 'Misfire' takes a hard look at nepotism, fraud and corruption in the NRA: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/02/1051363337/misfire-takes-a-hard-look-at-nepotism-fraud-and-corruption-in-the-nra https://www.npr.org/2021/11/02/1051363337/misfire-takes-a-ha...

sundvor 4y ago

Start paying attention to driveway deaths involving little children, and you might wish a retrofit mandate of existing cars was already in place.

berkes 4y ago
> driveway deaths involving little children, This leaves me with so many questions: * Why is this not an (actively discussed) issue in the EU? * Does this issue exist in other countries than the US? * If the problem is real, is a camera the only, or even best solution?
- Night_Thastus 4y ago
  The reason actually ties into another US problem - the proliferation of very large SUVs, Crossovers and Pickups. These gigantic cars have a significant problem seeing things close to them, especially if they're small like little kids. This is why backup cameras are so crucial in the US, but not nearly as much in other countries. Those huge cars need them for safety. For smaller cars (sedans, coups, hatchbacks) the benefit is a lot less.
  - sundvor 4y ago
    There's still too many involving normal sedans, at least in Australia. And modern sedans are sacrificing visibility for aerodynamics / fuel efficiency. So having them being blanket mandatory is the only sane thing. They are still not a guarantee against these incidents, I personally added backup sensors to my previous car - a Subaru Outback. They saved me from reversing into another car that had kind of snuck up on me once. The Tesla Model 3 (Ryzen '22 w/radar edition) is far, far superior in all aspects of safety when reversing now. Both a huge responsive massive FOV screen with side displays and the ultrasonic sensors beeping.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago

Few that wouldn't have been saved by Suburbans and Excursions going out of vogue with the upper middle class in favor of 4Runner, Pilots and a myriad of crossovers.