4 ms·

It doesn't matter if it's a bonus or salary, the point was that unions help people get better total compensation.

dylan604 3y ago
That's not a guarantee. There are times when part of the negotiations to get a larger number of employees to a higher salary, other employees might have to take a cut. That's why it's a negotiation and not a strong arming of the employer. When a union is first voted in to a shop, that negotiation for the first ever contracts could go any where.
- danaris 3y ago
  This argument plays on the sense of individual exceptionalism common among techie types, and particularly among people who frequent HN, to imply that because obviously you're (generic "you") better than average, a union would mean you would probably lose money! It's got just enough truth to it that one can't straight-out call it a lie (because it's referring vaguely to the possibility, not saying it happens everywhere or in specific, falsifiable, cases), but it's basically propaganda. In reality, by definition, most people (and in fact nearly everyone), including most people on here, are not getting pay above the rates that a union would be able to negotiate, even if you assume that a given union coming into your workplace would negotiate for something approximating flat rates or scheduled rates. The data all show that going from non-union to union increases compensation by significant amounts—I've seen numbers from ~11% to ~20%, so it probably varies across time. I hope that one day you, too, can come under union representation, even if it's against your own desires, so that you can see how much more money you'll get, how much better you can be treated, and how much more your voice will matter.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    You say this as if I have never been a part of a union vote. That's just such an ignorant assumption on your part. You also know nothing about me or my current working conditions. This comment especially is offensive: "even if it's against your own desires, so that you can see how much more money you'll get, how much better you can be treated, and how much more your voice will matter." like seriously, WTF? Actively hoping something happens to someone against their desires is utter bullshit. Also, your assumption my voice does not matter is also just so far off the mark, that it's like you asked GPT how to respond. You sound authoritative while being very wrong.

That's not a guarantee. There are times when part of the negotiations to get a larger number of employees to a higher salary, other employees might have to take a cut. That's why it's a negotiation and not a strong arming of the employer. When a union is first voted in to a shop, that negotiation for the first ever contracts could go any where.

danaris 3y ago
This argument plays on the sense of individual exceptionalism common among techie types, and particularly among people who frequent HN, to imply that because obviously you're (generic "you") better than average, a union would mean you would probably lose money! It's got just enough truth to it that one can't straight-out call it a lie (because it's referring vaguely to the possibility, not saying it happens everywhere or in specific, falsifiable, cases), but it's basically propaganda. In reality, by definition, most people (and in fact nearly everyone), including most people on here, are not getting pay above the rates that a union would be able to negotiate, even if you assume that a given union coming into your workplace would negotiate for something approximating flat rates or scheduled rates. The data all show that going from non-union to union increases compensation by significant amounts—I've seen numbers from ~11% to ~20%, so it probably varies across time. I hope that one day you, too, can come under union representation, even if it's against your own desires, so that you can see how much more money you'll get, how much better you can be treated, and how much more your voice will matter.
- dylan604 3y ago
  You say this as if I have never been a part of a union vote. That's just such an ignorant assumption on your part. You also know nothing about me or my current working conditions. This comment especially is offensive: "even if it's against your own desires, so that you can see how much more money you'll get, how much better you can be treated, and how much more your voice will matter." like seriously, WTF? Actively hoping something happens to someone against their desires is utter bullshit. Also, your assumption my voice does not matter is also just so far off the mark, that it's like you asked GPT how to respond. You sound authoritative while being very wrong.