3 ms·

On that note, for those who were put off by Picard, season 3 was actually quite good. Definitely worth a watch. And if you haven't seen any of it, I would alm

On that note, for those who were put off by Picard, season 3 was actually quite good. Definitely worth a watch. And if you haven't seen any of it, I would almost say reading the episode summaries for the first two seasons is enough. Some of those first two seasons was just catastrophically bad, even by Star Trek standards.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
morkalork 3y ago
Even in season 3 it was dangerously cheesey at times. Also the plot was structurally awkward. They wanted to do a long story arc like DS9 but crammed it into too few episodes so it felt rushed and not like DS9, but then it also didn't have standalone episodes like TNG so it didn't feel like that either. But, to be fair, it's a new show so should be judged on its own but I don't believe the combination of pieces was greater than the sum in end, only less.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  "Structurally awkward" is probably the best way to describe all three season arcs in Picard. The writers seemed to focus on "No tell, only show" plus "surprise twists" rather than character motivations so all three plots wound up feeling "upside down and backwards" in my opinion with key exposition infodumped in the end that I think would have been much better up front. They wouldn't have been "surprise twists" in that case, but that would have been for the better overall I think because you'd actually understand what all the various season villains were actually trying to accomplish. "No tell, only show" is a common problem in a lot of "Prestige TV" right now, leading to so many episodes feeling oddly paced where things need entire scenes across multiple episodes that probably should have been a two minute conversation. So that is not entirely a Picard flaw given how much current TV seems to suffer from it. (It certainly comes from a good intention, coming from the adage "show don't tell" taken to a logical, but awful extreme.) But it stands out a lot more in Picard especially, I think, because you watch old TNG episodes and they did so much exposition/setup in just a carefully worded "Captain's Log" and in that context it seems (at least to me) so how obvious how much could the Picard TV show have used a few more "ex-Admiral's Log" moments to just speed up a lot of filler.
fortyseven 3y ago
Seconded; it's almost entirely a new show except for a couple characters and plot elements carried over. And at least one redressed set. ;)
ihatepython 3y ago
Unfortunately, there is still no cure for baldness in the 25th century.
- stonogo 3y ago
  They cured body shaming instead. Better ROI.
- _cenw 3y ago
  Gene Roddenberry famously answered that prompt with "By the 24th century, no one will care."
- qubyte 3y ago
  With all the shiny floors and glare, at least they’ve found a cure for migraine.
ggeorgovassilis 3y ago
> season 3 was actually quite good While I watched all of it, I was distracted watching youtube on the side, so I didn't pay close enough attention. The following criticism might not stand to scrutiny. I didn't like S3 (just as I didn't like the previous two seasons). An endless violation of SF protocols (random retired people overruling a captain, the entire fleet parading around Earth), bad overreaching acting, resurrecting Data for the n-th time, unconnected story plots (Picard's son, the Changelings' revenge, Borgs), also Borgs who supposedly have Agnes as the new queen and should be friendly now. After the excellent season 1, I'm putting all my hopes into SNW S2.
- dalemyers 3y ago
  This comment has a bunch of spoilers in it. I've watched it so this hasn't changed anything for me, but I'm sure many here intent to watch it but haven't had the time yet. Reacting these spoilers may be a good idea.
  - ggeorgovassilis 3y ago
    The internet is dark and full of spoilers.
- wanda 3y ago
  Based on your comment, I'll give SNW a try. I had not bothered based on 2 seasons of Discovery and 3 episodes of Picard. I just went back to DS9. Also, from the same source as OP: https://www.mewho.com/trek/ https://www.mewho.com/trek/
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  > Borgs who supposedly have Agnes as the new queen and should be friendly now Spoilers and tangents: It's mentioned in only a throwaway line of dialog in S3 (by Captain Shaw) that those Borg were busy elsewhere. (Though we know not what or why.) Allegedly, Agnes' Borg are the (Memory Alpha canon) Borg Coöperative, an offshoot of the Borg that play interesting roles in Memory Beta canon (several novels, Star Trek Online), though have a different origin from Memory Beta canon and different organization structure and don't properly connect to the VOY episodes hinting at such… This is all alleged as Picard's writers didn't actually give us enough text to that affect, it's all just subtext right now in Alpha canon plus making inferences from Beta canon (and trying not to get upset that they took one of the good, fun ideas from Beta canon and nearly broke it by doing it so poorly). (The fun of the Borg Cooperative [in Beta canon] versus the Borg Collective is that the Borg Cooperative ultimately shows that the true assimilation threat in the Star Trek galaxy, while slower and "more peaceful", is truly the Federation, especially when its ideals gets into a culture's head and won't leave. The Collective is mostly defeated and will never assimilate all of the Federation, but the Federation certainly assimilated enough Borg to form its own faction of peaceful Federation allies.)
rkagerer 3y ago
Did Discovery ever recover? I stopped after a few seasons but see some occasional references to events I haven't viewed yet in canon and later episodes.
- wanda 3y ago
  I stopped after season 2, and I have not been compelled to look into further seasons. For me, Discovery just misses the point and panders to the demands of a wider audience. The production value us excellent, very talented cast and likeable characters, but they carried the weak writing hard. The series emphasis on action and war was also punctuated mainly thanks to the characters rather than any semblance of Star Trek. Unfortunately, this is the destiny of virtually everything, provided that the target is to maximise profit and maximising profit is equated to maximising volume and minimising risk. Funny, now that I think about it, Quark wouldn't struggle to find a place in our society today at all. He would probably work at a big movie studio.
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    I think S3 of Discovery is when it finally figures out what it wants to be when it grows up. The time jump at the end of S2 and how it plays out in S3 were great ideas and really helped Discovery solve a bunch of lingering problems from S1 and S2. I loved S3 and S4 had a lot of good stuff including its ending few episodes was some of the best of Star Trek and I'm looking forward to S5 and a little sad that S5 is known to be its last, because I think that's the most interesting part of the Star Trek timeline right now and they've been cagey about whatever shows may next be in that part of the timeline.
    - wanda 3y ago
      I see. Perhaps I'll give it a try!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

morkalork 3y ago

Even in season 3 it was dangerously cheesey at times. Also the plot was structurally awkward. They wanted to do a long story arc like DS9 but crammed it into too few episodes so it felt rushed and not like DS9, but then it also didn't have standalone episodes like TNG so it didn't feel like that either. But, to be fair, it's a new show so should be judged on its own but I don't believe the combination of pieces was greater than the sum in end, only less.

WorldMaker 3y ago
"Structurally awkward" is probably the best way to describe all three season arcs in Picard. The writers seemed to focus on "No tell, only show" plus "surprise twists" rather than character motivations so all three plots wound up feeling "upside down and backwards" in my opinion with key exposition infodumped in the end that I think would have been much better up front. They wouldn't have been "surprise twists" in that case, but that would have been for the better overall I think because you'd actually understand what all the various season villains were actually trying to accomplish. "No tell, only show" is a common problem in a lot of "Prestige TV" right now, leading to so many episodes feeling oddly paced where things need entire scenes across multiple episodes that probably should have been a two minute conversation. So that is not entirely a Picard flaw given how much current TV seems to suffer from it. (It certainly comes from a good intention, coming from the adage "show don't tell" taken to a logical, but awful extreme.) But it stands out a lot more in Picard especially, I think, because you watch old TNG episodes and they did so much exposition/setup in just a carefully worded "Captain's Log" and in that context it seems (at least to me) so how obvious how much could the Picard TV show have used a few more "ex-Admiral's Log" moments to just speed up a lot of filler.

fortyseven 3y ago

Seconded; it's almost entirely a new show except for a couple characters and plot elements carried over. And at least one redressed set. ;)

ihatepython 3y ago

Unfortunately, there is still no cure for baldness in the 25th century.

stonogo 3y ago
They cured body shaming instead. Better ROI.
_cenw 3y ago
Gene Roddenberry famously answered that prompt with "By the 24th century, no one will care."
qubyte 3y ago
With all the shiny floors and glare, at least they’ve found a cure for migraine.

ggeorgovassilis 3y ago

> season 3 was actually quite good While I watched all of it, I was distracted watching youtube on the side, so I didn't pay close enough attention. The following criticism might not stand to scrutiny. I didn't like S3 (just as I didn't like the previous two seasons). An endless violation of SF protocols (random retired people overruling a captain, the entire fleet parading around Earth), bad overreaching acting, resurrecting Data for the n-th time, unconnected story plots (Picard's son, the Changelings' revenge, Borgs), also Borgs who supposedly have Agnes as the new queen and should be friendly now. After the excellent season 1, I'm putting all my hopes into SNW S2.

dalemyers 3y ago
This comment has a bunch of spoilers in it. I've watched it so this hasn't changed anything for me, but I'm sure many here intent to watch it but haven't had the time yet. Reacting these spoilers may be a good idea.
- ggeorgovassilis 3y ago
  The internet is dark and full of spoilers.
wanda 3y ago
Based on your comment, I'll give SNW a try. I had not bothered based on 2 seasons of Discovery and 3 episodes of Picard. I just went back to DS9. Also, from the same source as OP: https://www.mewho.com/trek/ https://www.mewho.com/trek/
WorldMaker 3y ago
> Borgs who supposedly have Agnes as the new queen and should be friendly now Spoilers and tangents: It's mentioned in only a throwaway line of dialog in S3 (by Captain Shaw) that those Borg were busy elsewhere. (Though we know not what or why.) Allegedly, Agnes' Borg are the (Memory Alpha canon) Borg Coöperative, an offshoot of the Borg that play interesting roles in Memory Beta canon (several novels, Star Trek Online), though have a different origin from Memory Beta canon and different organization structure and don't properly connect to the VOY episodes hinting at such… This is all alleged as Picard's writers didn't actually give us enough text to that affect, it's all just subtext right now in Alpha canon plus making inferences from Beta canon (and trying not to get upset that they took one of the good, fun ideas from Beta canon and nearly broke it by doing it so poorly). (The fun of the Borg Cooperative [in Beta canon] versus the Borg Collective is that the Borg Cooperative ultimately shows that the true assimilation threat in the Star Trek galaxy, while slower and "more peaceful", is truly the Federation, especially when its ideals gets into a culture's head and won't leave. The Collective is mostly defeated and will never assimilate all of the Federation, but the Federation certainly assimilated enough Borg to form its own faction of peaceful Federation allies.)

rkagerer 3y ago

Did Discovery ever recover? I stopped after a few seasons but see some occasional references to events I haven't viewed yet in canon and later episodes.

wanda 3y ago
I stopped after season 2, and I have not been compelled to look into further seasons. For me, Discovery just misses the point and panders to the demands of a wider audience. The production value us excellent, very talented cast and likeable characters, but they carried the weak writing hard. The series emphasis on action and war was also punctuated mainly thanks to the characters rather than any semblance of Star Trek. Unfortunately, this is the destiny of virtually everything, provided that the target is to maximise profit and maximising profit is equated to maximising volume and minimising risk. Funny, now that I think about it, Quark wouldn't struggle to find a place in our society today at all. He would probably work at a big movie studio.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  I think S3 of Discovery is when it finally figures out what it wants to be when it grows up. The time jump at the end of S2 and how it plays out in S3 were great ideas and really helped Discovery solve a bunch of lingering problems from S1 and S2. I loved S3 and S4 had a lot of good stuff including its ending few episodes was some of the best of Star Trek and I'm looking forward to S5 and a little sad that S5 is known to be its last, because I think that's the most interesting part of the Star Trek timeline right now and they've been cagey about whatever shows may next be in that part of the timeline.
  - wanda 3y ago
    I see. Perhaps I'll give it a try!