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It's a joke even if she does report and serve. > Holmes, 39, was expected to serve her time in at a minimum-security prison camp in Houston, Texas. Minimum se

It's a joke even if she does report and serve. > Holmes, 39, was expected to serve her time in at a minimum-security prison camp in Houston, Texas. Minimum security prisons are the kind where you can leave during the day to go to work! None of that slave labor shit making license plates or filling in at McDonalds, either, like actually go to a regular job and earn money. They're called "Club Fed" for a reason. I thought anyone with over a decade of prison time wouldn't be eligible for such white glove treatment but nope. "Rules for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board

ddoolin 3y ago
This isn't something exclusive to wealthy individuals. Many first-time, non-violent offenders in many states are afforded this type of prison-camp setup. I suppose it is kind of odd for such a long sentence (although just divide by half for the probable realistic sentence) but I don't think the arrangement itself is at all unusual. If at least half of the goal of jail/prison is rehabilitation, it makes sense to me. EDIT: Apparently the feds have an 85% time served rate so it actually will be closer to a decade served.
- smnrchrds 3y ago
  And on the other end, we have people who get treated like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
  - typon 3y ago
    White woman vs. Black guy treatment. We shouldn't gloss over that.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - bmitc 3y ago
    Jesus. That was harrowing. I just cannot even imagine the hopelessness that he felt. It is pure cosmic horror. This just makes me so angry. The amount of corruption, racism, and incompetence for this to happen is staggering and quite honestly incomprehensible. A, what appears to be non-U.S. citizen, person makes a bogus accusation against two black men who are U.S. citizens. The accusation has no consistency or accuracy, and not a single shred of evidence was ever presented. And the accusation was theft of a backpack. So the mere word of a foreigner sentences a man to prison for over three years, with no case brought to court, and several judges offering plea bargains. How did they even justify the plea bargains? "Oh, you're in prison for no reason so here's a plea bargain for random crimes we've made up?" If the district attorney's office is so busy, why does someone need to stay in prison for that? Like, you're supposably busy, but he has to stay in prison because you're busy? Every single one of those judges, district attorneys, police officers, correctional officers, and prison administration should face penalties. Edit: And it turns out that that place is not even a prison. It's a holding facility for people who are awaiting trials and other court actions, i.e., innocent people.
    - HarryHirsch 3y ago
      And now you know why the right to a speedy trial was written into the constitution. Not that anyone consults it much, these days.
      - bmitc 3y ago
        I mean, I know why it's in there. The situation at that facility seems like hell even for a day or a few hours.
gnicholas 3y ago
Is she going to be allowed to leave once she reports? I hadn’t heard this, just that it’s minimum security.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Of course not, there's this pervasive and unfounded belief that Holmes somehow is going to get out of punishment for her crimes -- she's going to Federal prison for a decade. Best case scenario is she gets out after a bit over 9 years given the 85% minimum sentence in Federal prison. She's a nonviolent offender convicted of financial crimes, of course she's going to a low security facility.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    No, we already know she's going to a camp/minimum, which is significantly less punitive than a low. They're work program oriented, structured like dormitories and have no fencing. You leave every day to do work program then come back to the facility to sleep. A low security federal prison pretty much meets your expectations of what a prison is minus the gang activity. Do yourself a favor and google image search for "FPC Bryan" if you want an idea of what her stay will look like.
no_wizard 3y ago
I'm not a fan of US prisons, or the US prison system, honestly, our criminal justice system needs a major overhaul top to bottom With that said, my favorite is the pay per day way to serve your sentence under house arrest[0]. Often used by the wealthy to avoid going to jail at all, even for serious "white collar" crimes Or the fact you pay to stay in "fancy jail"[1] [0]: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/house-arrest/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/hous... [1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1 https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp...
- ddoolin 3y ago
  As a fun anecdote, I was sentenced to house arrest during COVID (after serving a short county jail sentence) and all of the fees were actually waived, by order of the governor, due to COVID IIRC. My experience is that this is seldom granted on request barring extenuating circumstances i.e. COVID, jail capacity, etc, and your convictions needs to be strictly non-violent otherwise. That said, at least in California the jails and prisons are very overcrowded leading to many unqualified individuals being offered house arrest after serving short stints in custody.
- moralestapia 3y ago
  >[1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp... Wow, it really feels like everything has been productized already.
monero-xmr 3y ago
No matter what anyone says, you do not want to go to prison in the USA. It’s dirty, the food sucks, no AC / poor heating / poor ventilation, you are told what to do and have to do it. You won’t get raped but you will be frequently naked in front of strangers. The bed is a cot and if you have a bad back it will be awful. The room will stink of shit as everyone is shitting 5 feet from each other. The societal stain is bad for your reputation. You do not want to go to prison.
- derwiki 3y ago
  I think that's supposed to be the incentive to not partake in illegal activities, e.g. defrauding your investors.
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    All these soft people on HN complaining the sentence isn’t harsh enough or the “prison camp is a joke”. Prison sucks and she will not have a fun time.
    - root_axis 3y ago
      The response is due to the inequity with respect to the vast majority of prisoners, many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. "Prison sucks" to be sure, but compared to most people she will be getting off easy.
      - ALittleLight 3y ago
        Do you think the other inmates are all rich too?
      - pm90 3y ago
        > many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. for far leas damaging crimes is the crucial part. To be clear: I don’t support those conditions for anyone. When society meets out punishment, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to terrorize people who are serving out their sentence. But that it happens to people who don’t even deserve it is horrifying.
trentnix 3y ago
It’s like Office Space come to life… The most they would do is put us for a few months into a white-collar, minimum-security resort!
- kube-system 3y ago
  Yeah but everyone forgets the scene where they talk to the lawyer later on. https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
> "Rule for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board How does that work? Kissinger (as well as lots of other very rich, powerful people with government connections) was one of the victims of the fraud.
kypro 3y ago
Out of interest, is it the double standards that bother you or the punishment?
- akiselev 3y ago
  Both. In an ideal world, all nonviolent prisoners would serve their time in minimum security prisons as would violent offenders who are genuinely rehabilitating. With work release reintegration into society is little more than a change in residence from prison to halfway house to their own place at the end of a prison sentence. But we don't live in an ideal world and as long as the United States justice system has a modus operandi, it should be applied consistently for the sake of fairness and equality. Otherwise it's just a big farce.
notadev 3y ago
I feel like everyone just overlooked the prisoners working at McDonalds portion of your comment. Where does that occur?
- akiselev 3y ago
  That might have been some fake news that worked itself into my brain. Politfact says it's mostly false [1] and that McDonald's doesn't use prison labor in its franchises but did at one point contract out the manufacturing of their uniforms to a company that used prison labor. Although according to the ACLU [2], prisoners are used in McDonald's supply chain and in restitution centers in Mississippi (which is very different from Holmes' federal case, mind): > Mississippi is the only state that still uses restitution centers to lock people up for an indefinite period of time while they work for private employers to earn money to pay off court-ordered debts. Hundreds of people a year are sentenced to be confined in Mississippi’s restitution centers, where they are required to stay until they pay off court fees, fines, and restitution. Workers are required to pay for room and board, transportation to their jobs, and medical care costs. They work slaughtering chickens, cutting catfish at processing plants, at Popeyes and McDonald’s franchises, and for auto mechanic shops, furniture companies, and meatpacking plants.... > ... Taylor Farms, North America’s largest supplier of salads and fresh-cut vegetables, paid over $2.2 million to Arizona’s prison industries program for labor contracts to employ incarcerated workers to cut and package fruit and vegetables for the company.371 Taylor Farms supplies some of the nation’s biggest fast food and grocery chains, including Chipotle, Costco, Kroger, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut, Ralphs, Safeway, Subway, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods Market. That's a hell of a list though. Costco, Kroger, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods basically covers every consumer in the country [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-posts/instagram-post-shares-misleading-information-about/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-... [2] https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022-06-15-captivelaborresearchreport.pdf https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022...

ddoolin 3y ago

This isn't something exclusive to wealthy individuals. Many first-time, non-violent offenders in many states are afforded this type of prison-camp setup. I suppose it is kind of odd for such a long sentence (although just divide by half for the probable realistic sentence) but I don't think the arrangement itself is at all unusual. If at least half of the goal of jail/prison is rehabilitation, it makes sense to me. EDIT: Apparently the feds have an 85% time served rate so it actually will be closer to a decade served.

smnrchrds 3y ago
And on the other end, we have people who get treated like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
- typon 3y ago
  White woman vs. Black guy treatment. We shouldn't gloss over that.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  [flagged]
- bmitc 3y ago
  Jesus. That was harrowing. I just cannot even imagine the hopelessness that he felt. It is pure cosmic horror. This just makes me so angry. The amount of corruption, racism, and incompetence for this to happen is staggering and quite honestly incomprehensible. A, what appears to be non-U.S. citizen, person makes a bogus accusation against two black men who are U.S. citizens. The accusation has no consistency or accuracy, and not a single shred of evidence was ever presented. And the accusation was theft of a backpack. So the mere word of a foreigner sentences a man to prison for over three years, with no case brought to court, and several judges offering plea bargains. How did they even justify the plea bargains? "Oh, you're in prison for no reason so here's a plea bargain for random crimes we've made up?" If the district attorney's office is so busy, why does someone need to stay in prison for that? Like, you're supposably busy, but he has to stay in prison because you're busy? Every single one of those judges, district attorneys, police officers, correctional officers, and prison administration should face penalties. Edit: And it turns out that that place is not even a prison. It's a holding facility for people who are awaiting trials and other court actions, i.e., innocent people.
  - HarryHirsch 3y ago
    And now you know why the right to a speedy trial was written into the constitution. Not that anyone consults it much, these days.
    - bmitc 3y ago
      I mean, I know why it's in there. The situation at that facility seems like hell even for a day or a few hours.

gnicholas 3y ago

Is she going to be allowed to leave once she reports? I hadn’t heard this, just that it’s minimum security.

mikeyouse 3y ago
Of course not, there's this pervasive and unfounded belief that Holmes somehow is going to get out of punishment for her crimes -- she's going to Federal prison for a decade. Best case scenario is she gets out after a bit over 9 years given the 85% minimum sentence in Federal prison. She's a nonviolent offender convicted of financial crimes, of course she's going to a low security facility.
- busterarm 3y ago
  No, we already know she's going to a camp/minimum, which is significantly less punitive than a low. They're work program oriented, structured like dormitories and have no fencing. You leave every day to do work program then come back to the facility to sleep. A low security federal prison pretty much meets your expectations of what a prison is minus the gang activity. Do yourself a favor and google image search for "FPC Bryan" if you want an idea of what her stay will look like.

no_wizard 3y ago

I'm not a fan of US prisons, or the US prison system, honestly, our criminal justice system needs a major overhaul top to bottom With that said, my favorite is the pay per day way to serve your sentence under house arrest[0]. Often used by the wealthy to avoid going to jail at all, even for serious "white collar" crimes Or the fact you pay to stay in "fancy jail"[1] [0]: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/house-arrest/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/hous... [1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1 https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp...

ddoolin 3y ago
As a fun anecdote, I was sentenced to house arrest during COVID (after serving a short county jail sentence) and all of the fees were actually waived, by order of the governor, due to COVID IIRC. My experience is that this is seldom granted on request barring extenuating circumstances i.e. COVID, jail capacity, etc, and your convictions needs to be strictly non-violent otherwise. That said, at least in California the jails and prisons are very overcrowded leading to many unqualified individuals being offered house arrest after serving short stints in custody.
moralestapia 3y ago
>[1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp... Wow, it really feels like everything has been productized already.

monero-xmr 3y ago

No matter what anyone says, you do not want to go to prison in the USA. It’s dirty, the food sucks, no AC / poor heating / poor ventilation, you are told what to do and have to do it. You won’t get raped but you will be frequently naked in front of strangers. The bed is a cot and if you have a bad back it will be awful. The room will stink of shit as everyone is shitting 5 feet from each other. The societal stain is bad for your reputation. You do not want to go to prison.

derwiki 3y ago
I think that's supposed to be the incentive to not partake in illegal activities, e.g. defrauding your investors.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  All these soft people on HN complaining the sentence isn’t harsh enough or the “prison camp is a joke”. Prison sucks and she will not have a fun time.
  - root_axis 3y ago
    The response is due to the inequity with respect to the vast majority of prisoners, many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. "Prison sucks" to be sure, but compared to most people she will be getting off easy.
    - ALittleLight 3y ago
      Do you think the other inmates are all rich too?
    - pm90 3y ago
      > many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. for far leas damaging crimes is the crucial part. To be clear: I don’t support those conditions for anyone. When society meets out punishment, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to terrorize people who are serving out their sentence. But that it happens to people who don’t even deserve it is horrifying.

trentnix 3y ago

It’s like Office Space come to life… The most they would do is put us for a few months into a white-collar, minimum-security resort!

kube-system 3y ago
Yeah but everyone forgets the scene where they talk to the lawyer later on. https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0

helsinkiandrew 3y ago

> "Rule for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board How does that work? Kissinger (as well as lots of other very rich, powerful people with government connections) was one of the victims of the fraud.

kypro 3y ago

Out of interest, is it the double standards that bother you or the punishment?

akiselev 3y ago
Both. In an ideal world, all nonviolent prisoners would serve their time in minimum security prisons as would violent offenders who are genuinely rehabilitating. With work release reintegration into society is little more than a change in residence from prison to halfway house to their own place at the end of a prison sentence. But we don't live in an ideal world and as long as the United States justice system has a modus operandi, it should be applied consistently for the sake of fairness and equality. Otherwise it's just a big farce.

notadev 3y ago

I feel like everyone just overlooked the prisoners working at McDonalds portion of your comment. Where does that occur?

akiselev 3y ago
That might have been some fake news that worked itself into my brain. Politfact says it's mostly false [1] and that McDonald's doesn't use prison labor in its franchises but did at one point contract out the manufacturing of their uniforms to a company that used prison labor. Although according to the ACLU [2], prisoners are used in McDonald's supply chain and in restitution centers in Mississippi (which is very different from Holmes' federal case, mind): > Mississippi is the only state that still uses restitution centers to lock people up for an indefinite period of time while they work for private employers to earn money to pay off court-ordered debts. Hundreds of people a year are sentenced to be confined in Mississippi’s restitution centers, where they are required to stay until they pay off court fees, fines, and restitution. Workers are required to pay for room and board, transportation to their jobs, and medical care costs. They work slaughtering chickens, cutting catfish at processing plants, at Popeyes and McDonald’s franchises, and for auto mechanic shops, furniture companies, and meatpacking plants.... > ... Taylor Farms, North America’s largest supplier of salads and fresh-cut vegetables, paid over $2.2 million to Arizona’s prison industries program for labor contracts to employ incarcerated workers to cut and package fruit and vegetables for the company.371 Taylor Farms supplies some of the nation’s biggest fast food and grocery chains, including Chipotle, Costco, Kroger, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut, Ralphs, Safeway, Subway, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods Market. That's a hell of a list though. Costco, Kroger, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods basically covers every consumer in the country [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-posts/instagram-post-shares-misleading-information-about/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-... [2] https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022-06-15-captivelaborresearchreport.pdf https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022...