6 ms·

Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes again delays start of 11-year prison term

msandford 4y ago
How does this work? If you're rich you get to refuse to show up to prison? I never realized that just choosing not to show up was an option. Seems kind of strange that she could (presumably) be in court and sentenced and not immediately taken away to start her time.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  Pretty sure if I tried the same thing, the PD would kick my front door in and take me.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    You think if you were on bail and appealing your case and are allowed to remain out on bail while appealing your case the police would kick in your door?
- akiselev 4y ago
  It's a joke even if she does report and serve. > Holmes, 39, was expected to serve her time in at a minimum-security prison camp in Houston, Texas. Minimum security prisons are the kind where you can leave during the day to go to work! None of that slave labor shit making license plates or filling in at McDonalds, either, like actually go to a regular job and earn money. They're called "Club Fed" for a reason. I thought anyone with over a decade of prison time wouldn't be eligible for such white glove treatment but nope. "Rules for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board
  - ddoolin 4y ago
    This isn't something exclusive to wealthy individuals. Many first-time, non-violent offenders in many states are afforded this type of prison-camp setup. I suppose it is kind of odd for such a long sentence (although just divide by half for the probable realistic sentence) but I don't think the arrangement itself is at all unusual. If at least half of the goal of jail/prison is rehabilitation, it makes sense to me. EDIT: Apparently the feds have an 85% time served rate so it actually will be closer to a decade served.
    - smnrchrds 4y ago
      And on the other end, we have people who get treated like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
      - typon 4y ago
        White woman vs. Black guy treatment. We shouldn't gloss over that.
      - edgyquant 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - bmitc 4y ago
        Jesus. That was harrowing. I just cannot even imagine the hopelessness that he felt. It is pure cosmic horror. This just makes me so angry. The amount of corruption, racism, and incompetence for this to happen is staggering and quite honestly incomprehensible. A, what appears to be non-U.S. citizen, person makes a bogus accusation against two black men who are U.S. citizens. The accusation has no consistency or accuracy, and not a single shred of evidence was ever presented. And the accusation was theft of a backpack. So the mere word of a foreigner sentences a man to prison for over three years, with no case brought to court, and several judges offering plea bargains. How did they even justify the plea bargains? "Oh, you're in prison for no reason so here's a plea bargain for random crimes we've made up?" If the district attorney's office is so busy, why does someone need to stay in prison for that? Like, you're supposably busy, but he has to stay in prison because you're busy? Every single one of those judges, district attorneys, police officers, correctional officers, and prison administration should face penalties. Edit: And it turns out that that place is not even a prison. It's a holding facility for people who are awaiting trials and other court actions, i.e., innocent people.
        HarryHirsch 4y ago
        And now you know why the right to a speedy trial was written into the constitution. Not that anyone consults it much, these days.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    Is she going to be allowed to leave once she reports? I hadn’t heard this, just that it’s minimum security.
    - mikeyouse 4y ago
      Of course not, there's this pervasive and unfounded belief that Holmes somehow is going to get out of punishment for her crimes -- she's going to Federal prison for a decade. Best case scenario is she gets out after a bit over 9 years given the 85% minimum sentence in Federal prison. She's a nonviolent offender convicted of financial crimes, of course she's going to a low security facility.
      - busterarm 4y ago
        No, we already know she's going to a camp/minimum, which is significantly less punitive than a low. They're work program oriented, structured like dormitories and have no fencing. You leave every day to do work program then come back to the facility to sleep. A low security federal prison pretty much meets your expectations of what a prison is minus the gang activity. Do yourself a favor and google image search for "FPC Bryan" if you want an idea of what her stay will look like.
  - no_wizard 4y ago
    I'm not a fan of US prisons, or the US prison system, honestly, our criminal justice system needs a major overhaul top to bottom With that said, my favorite is the pay per day way to serve your sentence under house arrest[0]. Often used by the wealthy to avoid going to jail at all, even for serious "white collar" crimes Or the fact you pay to stay in "fancy jail"[1] [0]: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/house-arrest/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/hous... [1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1 https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp...
    - ddoolin 4y ago
      As a fun anecdote, I was sentenced to house arrest during COVID (after serving a short county jail sentence) and all of the fees were actually waived, by order of the governor, due to COVID IIRC. My experience is that this is seldom granted on request barring extenuating circumstances i.e. COVID, jail capacity, etc, and your convictions needs to be strictly non-violent otherwise. That said, at least in California the jails and prisons are very overcrowded leading to many unqualified individuals being offered house arrest after serving short stints in custody.
    - moralestapia 4y ago
      >[1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp... Wow, it really feels like everything has been productized already.
  - monero-xmr 4y ago
    No matter what anyone says, you do not want to go to prison in the USA. It’s dirty, the food sucks, no AC / poor heating / poor ventilation, you are told what to do and have to do it. You won’t get raped but you will be frequently naked in front of strangers. The bed is a cot and if you have a bad back it will be awful. The room will stink of shit as everyone is shitting 5 feet from each other. The societal stain is bad for your reputation. You do not want to go to prison.
    - derwiki 4y ago
      I think that's supposed to be the incentive to not partake in illegal activities, e.g. defrauding your investors.
      - monero-xmr 4y ago
        All these soft people on HN complaining the sentence isn’t harsh enough or the “prison camp is a joke”. Prison sucks and she will not have a fun time.
        root_axis 4y ago
        The response is due to the inequity with respect to the vast majority of prisoners, many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. "Prison sucks" to be sure, but compared to most people she will be getting off easy.
        ALittleLight 4y ago
        Do you think the other inmates are all rich too?
        pm90 4y ago
        > many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. for far leas damaging crimes is the crucial part. To be clear: I don’t support those conditions for anyone. When society meets out punishment, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to terrorize people who are serving out their sentence. But that it happens to people who don’t even deserve it is horrifying.
  - trentnix 4y ago
    It’s like Office Space come to life… The most they would do is put us for a few months into a white-collar, minimum-security resort!
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Yeah but everyone forgets the scene where they talk to the lawyer later on. https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0
  - helsinkiandrew 4y ago
    > "Rule for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board How does that work? Kissinger (as well as lots of other very rich, powerful people with government connections) was one of the victims of the fraud.
  - kypro 4y ago
    Out of interest, is it the double standards that bother you or the punishment?
    - akiselev 4y ago
      Both. In an ideal world, all nonviolent prisoners would serve their time in minimum security prisons as would violent offenders who are genuinely rehabilitating. With work release reintegration into society is little more than a change in residence from prison to halfway house to their own place at the end of a prison sentence. But we don't live in an ideal world and as long as the United States justice system has a modus operandi, it should be applied consistently for the sake of fairness and equality. Otherwise it's just a big farce.
  - notadev 4y ago
    I feel like everyone just overlooked the prisoners working at McDonalds portion of your comment. Where does that occur?
    - akiselev 4y ago
      That might have been some fake news that worked itself into my brain. Politfact says it's mostly false [1] and that McDonald's doesn't use prison labor in its franchises but did at one point contract out the manufacturing of their uniforms to a company that used prison labor. Although according to the ACLU [2], prisoners are used in McDonald's supply chain and in restitution centers in Mississippi (which is very different from Holmes' federal case, mind): > Mississippi is the only state that still uses restitution centers to lock people up for an indefinite period of time while they work for private employers to earn money to pay off court-ordered debts. Hundreds of people a year are sentenced to be confined in Mississippi’s restitution centers, where they are required to stay until they pay off court fees, fines, and restitution. Workers are required to pay for room and board, transportation to their jobs, and medical care costs. They work slaughtering chickens, cutting catfish at processing plants, at Popeyes and McDonald’s franchises, and for auto mechanic shops, furniture companies, and meatpacking plants.... > ... Taylor Farms, North America’s largest supplier of salads and fresh-cut vegetables, paid over $2.2 million to Arizona’s prison industries program for labor contracts to employ incarcerated workers to cut and package fruit and vegetables for the company.371 Taylor Farms supplies some of the nation’s biggest fast food and grocery chains, including Chipotle, Costco, Kroger, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut, Ralphs, Safeway, Subway, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods Market. That's a hell of a list though. Costco, Kroger, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods basically covers every consumer in the country [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-posts/instagram-post-shares-misleading-information-about/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-... [2] https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022-06-15-captivelaborresearchreport.pdf https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022...
- gnicholas 4y ago
  It sounds like the filing of the appeal caused the reporting date to be pushed back automatically. She is not (yet) a fugitive; she’s just pulling all the levers to delay as long as possible. > The appeal automatically delays her reporting date, and she will now remain out of prison until a court of appeals rules on her request.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    Maybe I'm not looking at some bigger picture thing here but this seems like the sort of thing that should have interest payments involved. 15% APR on all time served. If you tie your sentence up in court for 2 years you owe the general public an extra 33% jail time.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      So if the judge makes a bad ruling and you have to appeal, then you'd owe more time?
      - hinkley 4y ago
        You don’t owe time if you’re exonerated.
        gnicholas 4y ago
        True, but it makes it that much riskier to appeal. You can end up losing on procedural grounds, and then you're extra screwed. As a (former) lawyer my gut tells me this might be ruled unconstitutional, on account of due process rights and the presumption of innocence. But it's an interesting idea, and one I've never heard before.
        hinkley 4y ago
        I don’t think you’re wrong that there are unintended consequences there. Thats the problem with politics. The simple solutions are wrong, and everybody hates how goddamned complicated the less wrong solutions are (and enough people hate compromise on principle so they sandbag the whole process).
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > If you're rich you get to refuse to show up to prison? More like, if you're rich you can afford to keep filing appeals (for a while). But it's no secret that the US justice system favors the wealthy.
- kodah 4y ago
  Holmes had a baby and that pushed back her initial court appearance for a while, she tried to offload a lot of blame onto Sunny Balwani, she married into money with a man that's an heir to a retirement home company and lives on a ranch outside of Palo Alto that's worth $135M, and has filed several timely appeals that happen to push back the date she goes to minimum security prison in Houston. Frankly, the answer to how that works is less rich and more being highly adept at utilizing various levels of privilege to her advantage in almost calculating fashion.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    Almost like a sociopath would.
    - evan_ 4y ago
      I don't think trying to stay out of jail makes you a sociopath
      - jjtheblunt 4y ago
        Creating two children, once she knew she’s facing prison, to hope first for no sentence and second for indefinite delays, might count as sociopath behavior.
        hinkley 4y ago
        I've spent too much time in r/raisedbynarcissists on behalf of a friend who discovered later in life that they were, and let me tell you, it really does seem that having your narcissist/sociopathic parent locked up for most of your formative years may be the silver lining of your life.
        jjtheblunt 4y ago
        That’s entirely plausible!
      - 4y ago
- EZ-Cheeze 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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- toss1 4y ago
  The delay is pending an appeal. A previous ruling on the appeal found that she was unlikely to win a new trial, so sentencing date was set. Appealing that resulted in a more optimistic finding. It may not last for long, and in any case will merely delay the day she gets out. Her co-conspirator went the same route, was denied, and has started his sentence. But ya, it sure feels like 'leniency for thee and not for me'
- bnralt 4y ago
  > I never realized that just choosing not to show up was an option. At least around here, it seems to happen a lot to violent offenders who aren't rich. There was a guy a few months ago who committed an armed robbery. Reached a plea to get it turned into an attempted robbery. He simply stopped showing up to court dates (both for the armed robbery and a separate theft case) and was out on his own for months, until he stabbed an innocent woman to death[1]. Just a few weeks ago one of the guys who shot a Washington Commanders player absconded, and it doesn't seem like anyone cares. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/04/ivy-city-hotel-stabbing-dc-christy-bautista/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/04/ivy-city-... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/05/commanders-brian-robinson-shooting-teen-absconds/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/05/commander...
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Exactly, why would anyone show up on time then?
- karaterobot 4y ago
  Here is the way it works, as explained in the article: > [S]he is appealing [Judge] Davila’s ruling that she remain in custody while it is determined whether she should get a new trial... The appeal automatically delays her reporting date, and she will now remain out of prison until a court of appeals rules on her request.
diogenescynic 4y ago
> Lawyers for the disgraced entrepreneur told a judge she would not be turning herself in as she is appealing custody ruling If a poor person did this, they’d be a fugitive.
- deleted 4y ago
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JCM9 4y ago
Unclear what the article is saying. Judge ruled against her and so she’s “declining to turn herself in.” So… Just arrest her and take her to jail then? Any lawyers that can advise on what’s going on here?
- mikeyouse 4y ago
  She filed an appeal, and so an automatic stay is granted until the court rules on the issue. Likely this week. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.327949/gov.uscourts.cand.327949.1758.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.32...
evan_ 4y ago
> disgraced entrepreneur weird way to spell "scam artist"
qup 4y ago
I get real tired of hearing all the hate for rich people and the fact that they even exist. But special treatment for rich criminals? who got their wealth through the very same crime? Nah. Do rich men also historically get similar treatment? Or is gender also playing a role?
- faefox 4y ago
  > Do rich men also historically get similar treatment? Or is gender also playing a role? I'm sorry, but is this a serious question? Yes, of course rich men get similar treatment. Elizabeth is not being treated with kid gloves because she's a woman, it's because she's an upper-class white-collar criminal who (at least at one point in time) had connections. This is the definition of privilege. To offer a case in point: Andy Fastow, one of the principal architects of the Enron fraud, who wiped out the retirement savings of tens of thousands of Enron employees and did only 5 years in a minimum-security prison camp as a result.
  - pseudo0 4y ago
    Fastow took a plea deal and cooperated with the government, so that isn't really a fair comparison. The "big fish" Lay and Skilling got 45 years and 24 years respectively.
  - qup 4y ago
    I hear you, but I don't think that's the same thing I'm talking about. We all know white-collar crime isn't punished harshly. How long after Andy Fastow's sentencing did he get to remain free?
- xiphias2 4y ago
  > But special treatment for rich criminals? who got their wealth through the very same crime? Nah. She's the daughter of Enron's VP, not just a random person who got rich from fraud. But to the point about rich men: SBF is still in home arrest, and Elisabeth did nothing compared to the tens of billions of dollars of fraud concentrating in SBF's hands. It will be interesting to see what he gets.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
She was due to report to prison on 27th April and, according to the article, her appeal automatically cancels that. So, no she is not a fugitive an no-one is going to arrest her, irrespective of her wealth. Nothing to see here...
- deleted 4y ago
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naikrovek 4y ago
it is amazing what rich people can get away with. if this was a Latino woman in Arizona she'd be dead by now. edit: see my great-grandchild comment to gain a bit more info I to what I was thinking, here.
- owlglass 4y ago
  Why make it about race? It's about her being wealthy and connected; rich, well-connected minorities get away with things all the time
  - Clubber 4y ago
    The powers that be have trained us to make everything about race instead of about class, because if it was about class, the powers would have a harder time getting away with it. It also keeps us separated politically.
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      Amen to that I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I think this is a very thorough and very effective ongoing response to Occupy Wall Street. That movement has been handily forked into the completely pointless: Trump vs Mexicans, Bernie vs Billionaires, and Democrats vs Nazis
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      no powers that be, here. I was thinking of a Latino woman who was arrested while in labor for a traffic violation and she was handcuffed to the hospital bed and arrested as soon as she delivered. if she was rich that would not have happened. if she was white that would not have happened. poor people pay for being poor every day of their lives in dozens of ways. minorities pay for being minorities every day of their lives in dozens of ways. I could have separated wealth from race, yes, and I should have.
      - Clubber 4y ago
        >if she was rich that would not have happened. This is probably true. More specifically if the police knew she was rich. >if she was white that would not have happened. I dunno, I watch a lot of videos where cops behave badly, so much so I had to stop watching them because it was affecting my mood. There's plenty of white people who get treated like crap. It happens to everybody because it's not about race, it's about class. Here's a white guy getting tazed because he didn't comply fast enough. He didn't comply fast enough because he was deaf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYWJJkipPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYWJJkipPQ It's not about race, it's about class.
nostromo 4y ago
I dislike how bloodthirsty people are for her to serve over a decade of hard time. Lots of people serve less time than this in the US for literal murder. Remember, she was convicted only of wire-fraud against her investors - the same investors that did very little due diligence before they handed her billions of dollars.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > of hard time. I don't think this is a fair description and it's loaded to support your point of view. C.f. wikipedia: > Davila recommended she be incarcerated at Federal Prison Camp, Bryan, in Texas, a minimum security facility with limited or no perimeter fencing. "No one wants to get kicked out because compared to other places in the prison system, this place is heaven. If you have to go it's a good place to go," said a criminal defense lawyer.
  - nostromo 4y ago
    Good. Prisons shouldn't be designed to torture people. Losing a decade of your life is not a small deal, even in a low-security prison. And the reason you get sent to minimum security prison is because you're not seen as a flight risk or as likely to be violent -- a measure she meets.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > Good. Prisons shouldn't be designed to torture people. No one here said they should. It was just pointed out that a Federal prison camp isn't a great match for "hard time", which carries the connotation of a particularly difficult penal institution. It seems a bit loaded.
- busterarm 4y ago
  It's not like just some clueless investors suffered. Rich people don't face consequences like that. They just tighten their purse strings. It hits the people they employ. Plus all of that investment money would otherwise have gone to a real business and employed tens of thousands of real people for decades. Her fraudulent enterprise robbed real opportunity from real people and real businesses. Edit: Also, it's not just about eagerness to see her serve prison time. She committed serious crimes and has been given multiple opportunities to express remorse for what she has done. At each opportunity she has instead chosen to double down on her innocence. This is why we're all eager to see her serve the maximum length and quality of time.
Entinel 4y ago
A lot of "eat the rich" type comments but you can do this if you aren't rich and aren't currently in custody. I knew a guy who was told to report to jail to begin his sentence and managed to delay it for 3 years. With appeals, medical extensions, and whatever other bullshit you can think of, you can keep this charade going for a long time.
- sp332 4y ago
  But her request to remain free during appeal was already denied on the 10th. https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/elizabeth-holmes-to-remain-free-for-now-prison-time-delayed-amid-appeal/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/elizabeth-holmes-to-...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

How does this work? If you're rich you get to refuse to show up to prison? I never realized that just choosing not to show up was an option. Seems kind of strange that she could (presumably) be in court and sentenced and not immediately taken away to start her time.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago
Pretty sure if I tried the same thing, the PD would kick my front door in and take me.
- paulcole 4y ago
  You think if you were on bail and appealing your case and are allowed to remain out on bail while appealing your case the police would kick in your door?
akiselev 4y ago
It's a joke even if she does report and serve. > Holmes, 39, was expected to serve her time in at a minimum-security prison camp in Houston, Texas. Minimum security prisons are the kind where you can leave during the day to go to work! None of that slave labor shit making license plates or filling in at McDonalds, either, like actually go to a regular job and earn money. They're called "Club Fed" for a reason. I thought anyone with over a decade of prison time wouldn't be eligible for such white glove treatment but nope. "Rules for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board
- ddoolin 4y ago
  This isn't something exclusive to wealthy individuals. Many first-time, non-violent offenders in many states are afforded this type of prison-camp setup. I suppose it is kind of odd for such a long sentence (although just divide by half for the probable realistic sentence) but I don't think the arrangement itself is at all unusual. If at least half of the goal of jail/prison is rehabilitation, it makes sense to me. EDIT: Apparently the feds have an 85% time served rate so it actually will be closer to a decade served.
  - smnrchrds 4y ago
    And on the other end, we have people who get treated like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
    - typon 4y ago
      White woman vs. Black guy treatment. We shouldn't gloss over that.
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - bmitc 4y ago
      Jesus. That was harrowing. I just cannot even imagine the hopelessness that he felt. It is pure cosmic horror. This just makes me so angry. The amount of corruption, racism, and incompetence for this to happen is staggering and quite honestly incomprehensible. A, what appears to be non-U.S. citizen, person makes a bogus accusation against two black men who are U.S. citizens. The accusation has no consistency or accuracy, and not a single shred of evidence was ever presented. And the accusation was theft of a backpack. So the mere word of a foreigner sentences a man to prison for over three years, with no case brought to court, and several judges offering plea bargains. How did they even justify the plea bargains? "Oh, you're in prison for no reason so here's a plea bargain for random crimes we've made up?" If the district attorney's office is so busy, why does someone need to stay in prison for that? Like, you're supposably busy, but he has to stay in prison because you're busy? Every single one of those judges, district attorneys, police officers, correctional officers, and prison administration should face penalties. Edit: And it turns out that that place is not even a prison. It's a holding facility for people who are awaiting trials and other court actions, i.e., innocent people.
      - HarryHirsch 4y ago
        And now you know why the right to a speedy trial was written into the constitution. Not that anyone consults it much, these days.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Is she going to be allowed to leave once she reports? I hadn’t heard this, just that it’s minimum security.
  - mikeyouse 4y ago
    Of course not, there's this pervasive and unfounded belief that Holmes somehow is going to get out of punishment for her crimes -- she's going to Federal prison for a decade. Best case scenario is she gets out after a bit over 9 years given the 85% minimum sentence in Federal prison. She's a nonviolent offender convicted of financial crimes, of course she's going to a low security facility.
    - busterarm 4y ago
      No, we already know she's going to a camp/minimum, which is significantly less punitive than a low. They're work program oriented, structured like dormitories and have no fencing. You leave every day to do work program then come back to the facility to sleep. A low security federal prison pretty much meets your expectations of what a prison is minus the gang activity. Do yourself a favor and google image search for "FPC Bryan" if you want an idea of what her stay will look like.
- no_wizard 4y ago
  I'm not a fan of US prisons, or the US prison system, honestly, our criminal justice system needs a major overhaul top to bottom With that said, my favorite is the pay per day way to serve your sentence under house arrest[0]. Often used by the wealthy to avoid going to jail at all, even for serious "white collar" crimes Or the fact you pay to stay in "fancy jail"[1] [0]: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/house-arrest/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/process/sentencing/hous... [1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1 https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp...
  - ddoolin 4y ago
    As a fun anecdote, I was sentenced to house arrest during COVID (after serving a short county jail sentence) and all of the fees were actually waived, by order of the governor, due to COVID IIRC. My experience is that this is seldom granted on request barring extenuating circumstances i.e. COVID, jail capacity, etc, and your convictions needs to be strictly non-violent otherwise. That said, at least in California the jails and prisons are very overcrowded leading to many unqualified individuals being offered house arrest after serving short stints in custody.
  - moralestapia 4y ago
    >[1]: https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/?wp... Wow, it really feels like everything has been productized already.
- monero-xmr 4y ago
  No matter what anyone says, you do not want to go to prison in the USA. It’s dirty, the food sucks, no AC / poor heating / poor ventilation, you are told what to do and have to do it. You won’t get raped but you will be frequently naked in front of strangers. The bed is a cot and if you have a bad back it will be awful. The room will stink of shit as everyone is shitting 5 feet from each other. The societal stain is bad for your reputation. You do not want to go to prison.
  - derwiki 4y ago
    I think that's supposed to be the incentive to not partake in illegal activities, e.g. defrauding your investors.
    - monero-xmr 4y ago
      All these soft people on HN complaining the sentence isn’t harsh enough or the “prison camp is a joke”. Prison sucks and she will not have a fun time.
      - root_axis 4y ago
        The response is due to the inequity with respect to the vast majority of prisoners, many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. "Prison sucks" to be sure, but compared to most people she will be getting off easy.
        ALittleLight 4y ago
        Do you think the other inmates are all rich too?
        pm90 4y ago
        > many of which will be raped and subject to slave labor conditions. for far leas damaging crimes is the crucial part. To be clear: I don’t support those conditions for anyone. When society meets out punishment, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to terrorize people who are serving out their sentence. But that it happens to people who don’t even deserve it is horrifying.
- trentnix 4y ago
  It’s like Office Space come to life… The most they would do is put us for a few months into a white-collar, minimum-security resort!
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Yeah but everyone forgets the scene where they talk to the lawyer later on. https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=-da3-gPWFp0
- helsinkiandrew 4y ago
  > "Rule for thee but not for me" when you've got Kissinger on board How does that work? Kissinger (as well as lots of other very rich, powerful people with government connections) was one of the victims of the fraud.
- kypro 4y ago
  Out of interest, is it the double standards that bother you or the punishment?
  - akiselev 4y ago
    Both. In an ideal world, all nonviolent prisoners would serve their time in minimum security prisons as would violent offenders who are genuinely rehabilitating. With work release reintegration into society is little more than a change in residence from prison to halfway house to their own place at the end of a prison sentence. But we don't live in an ideal world and as long as the United States justice system has a modus operandi, it should be applied consistently for the sake of fairness and equality. Otherwise it's just a big farce.
- notadev 4y ago
  I feel like everyone just overlooked the prisoners working at McDonalds portion of your comment. Where does that occur?
  - akiselev 4y ago
    That might have been some fake news that worked itself into my brain. Politfact says it's mostly false [1] and that McDonald's doesn't use prison labor in its franchises but did at one point contract out the manufacturing of their uniforms to a company that used prison labor. Although according to the ACLU [2], prisoners are used in McDonald's supply chain and in restitution centers in Mississippi (which is very different from Holmes' federal case, mind): > Mississippi is the only state that still uses restitution centers to lock people up for an indefinite period of time while they work for private employers to earn money to pay off court-ordered debts. Hundreds of people a year are sentenced to be confined in Mississippi’s restitution centers, where they are required to stay until they pay off court fees, fines, and restitution. Workers are required to pay for room and board, transportation to their jobs, and medical care costs. They work slaughtering chickens, cutting catfish at processing plants, at Popeyes and McDonald’s franchises, and for auto mechanic shops, furniture companies, and meatpacking plants.... > ... Taylor Farms, North America’s largest supplier of salads and fresh-cut vegetables, paid over $2.2 million to Arizona’s prison industries program for labor contracts to employ incarcerated workers to cut and package fruit and vegetables for the company.371 Taylor Farms supplies some of the nation’s biggest fast food and grocery chains, including Chipotle, Costco, Kroger, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut, Ralphs, Safeway, Subway, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods Market. That's a hell of a list though. Costco, Kroger, Target, Walmart, and Whole Foods basically covers every consumer in the country [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-posts/instagram-post-shares-misleading-information-about/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/22/instagram-... [2] https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022-06-15-captivelaborresearchreport.pdf https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/2022...
gnicholas 4y ago
It sounds like the filing of the appeal caused the reporting date to be pushed back automatically. She is not (yet) a fugitive; she’s just pulling all the levers to delay as long as possible. > The appeal automatically delays her reporting date, and she will now remain out of prison until a court of appeals rules on her request.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Maybe I'm not looking at some bigger picture thing here but this seems like the sort of thing that should have interest payments involved. 15% APR on all time served. If you tie your sentence up in court for 2 years you owe the general public an extra 33% jail time.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    So if the judge makes a bad ruling and you have to appeal, then you'd owe more time?
    - hinkley 4y ago
      You don’t owe time if you’re exonerated.
      - gnicholas 4y ago
        True, but it makes it that much riskier to appeal. You can end up losing on procedural grounds, and then you're extra screwed. As a (former) lawyer my gut tells me this might be ruled unconstitutional, on account of due process rights and the presumption of innocence. But it's an interesting idea, and one I've never heard before.
        hinkley 4y ago
        I don’t think you’re wrong that there are unintended consequences there. Thats the problem with politics. The simple solutions are wrong, and everybody hates how goddamned complicated the less wrong solutions are (and enough people hate compromise on principle so they sandbag the whole process).
JohnFen 4y ago
> If you're rich you get to refuse to show up to prison? More like, if you're rich you can afford to keep filing appeals (for a while). But it's no secret that the US justice system favors the wealthy.
kodah 4y ago
Holmes had a baby and that pushed back her initial court appearance for a while, she tried to offload a lot of blame onto Sunny Balwani, she married into money with a man that's an heir to a retirement home company and lives on a ranch outside of Palo Alto that's worth $135M, and has filed several timely appeals that happen to push back the date she goes to minimum security prison in Houston. Frankly, the answer to how that works is less rich and more being highly adept at utilizing various levels of privilege to her advantage in almost calculating fashion.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Almost like a sociopath would.
  - evan_ 4y ago
    I don't think trying to stay out of jail makes you a sociopath
    - jjtheblunt 4y ago
      Creating two children, once she knew she’s facing prison, to hope first for no sentence and second for indefinite delays, might count as sociopath behavior.
      - hinkley 4y ago
        I've spent too much time in r/raisedbynarcissists on behalf of a friend who discovered later in life that they were, and let me tell you, it really does seem that having your narcissist/sociopathic parent locked up for most of your formative years may be the silver lining of your life.
        jjtheblunt 4y ago
        That’s entirely plausible!
    - 4y ago
EZ-Cheeze 4y ago
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toss1 4y ago
The delay is pending an appeal. A previous ruling on the appeal found that she was unlikely to win a new trial, so sentencing date was set. Appealing that resulted in a more optimistic finding. It may not last for long, and in any case will merely delay the day she gets out. Her co-conspirator went the same route, was denied, and has started his sentence. But ya, it sure feels like 'leniency for thee and not for me'
bnralt 4y ago
> I never realized that just choosing not to show up was an option. At least around here, it seems to happen a lot to violent offenders who aren't rich. There was a guy a few months ago who committed an armed robbery. Reached a plea to get it turned into an attempted robbery. He simply stopped showing up to court dates (both for the armed robbery and a separate theft case) and was out on his own for months, until he stabbed an innocent woman to death[1]. Just a few weeks ago one of the guys who shot a Washington Commanders player absconded, and it doesn't seem like anyone cares. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/04/ivy-city-hotel-stabbing-dc-christy-bautista/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/04/ivy-city-... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/05/commanders-brian-robinson-shooting-teen-absconds/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/05/commander...
iancmceachern 4y ago
Exactly, why would anyone show up on time then?
karaterobot 4y ago
Here is the way it works, as explained in the article: > [S]he is appealing [Judge] Davila’s ruling that she remain in custody while it is determined whether she should get a new trial... The appeal automatically delays her reporting date, and she will now remain out of prison until a court of appeals rules on her request.

diogenescynic 4y ago

> Lawyers for the disgraced entrepreneur told a judge she would not be turning herself in as she is appealing custody ruling If a poor person did this, they’d be a fugitive.

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JCM9 4y ago

Unclear what the article is saying. Judge ruled against her and so she’s “declining to turn herself in.” So… Just arrest her and take her to jail then? Any lawyers that can advise on what’s going on here?

mikeyouse 4y ago
She filed an appeal, and so an automatic stay is granted until the court rules on the issue. Likely this week. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.327949/gov.uscourts.cand.327949.1758.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.32...

evan_ 4y ago

> disgraced entrepreneur weird way to spell "scam artist"

qup 4y ago

I get real tired of hearing all the hate for rich people and the fact that they even exist. But special treatment for rich criminals? who got their wealth through the very same crime? Nah. Do rich men also historically get similar treatment? Or is gender also playing a role?

faefox 4y ago
> Do rich men also historically get similar treatment? Or is gender also playing a role? I'm sorry, but is this a serious question? Yes, of course rich men get similar treatment. Elizabeth is not being treated with kid gloves because she's a woman, it's because she's an upper-class white-collar criminal who (at least at one point in time) had connections. This is the definition of privilege. To offer a case in point: Andy Fastow, one of the principal architects of the Enron fraud, who wiped out the retirement savings of tens of thousands of Enron employees and did only 5 years in a minimum-security prison camp as a result.
- pseudo0 4y ago
  Fastow took a plea deal and cooperated with the government, so that isn't really a fair comparison. The "big fish" Lay and Skilling got 45 years and 24 years respectively.
- qup 4y ago
  I hear you, but I don't think that's the same thing I'm talking about. We all know white-collar crime isn't punished harshly. How long after Andy Fastow's sentencing did he get to remain free?
xiphias2 4y ago
> But special treatment for rich criminals? who got their wealth through the very same crime? Nah. She's the daughter of Enron's VP, not just a random person who got rich from fraud. But to the point about rich men: SBF is still in home arrest, and Elisabeth did nothing compared to the tens of billions of dollars of fraud concentrating in SBF's hands. It will be interesting to see what he gets.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

She was due to report to prison on 27th April and, according to the article, her appeal automatically cancels that. So, no she is not a fugitive an no-one is going to arrest her, irrespective of her wealth. Nothing to see here...

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naikrovek 4y ago

it is amazing what rich people can get away with. if this was a Latino woman in Arizona she'd be dead by now. edit: see my great-grandchild comment to gain a bit more info I to what I was thinking, here.

owlglass 4y ago
Why make it about race? It's about her being wealthy and connected; rich, well-connected minorities get away with things all the time
- Clubber 4y ago
  The powers that be have trained us to make everything about race instead of about class, because if it was about class, the powers would have a harder time getting away with it. It also keeps us separated politically.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    Amen to that I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I think this is a very thorough and very effective ongoing response to Occupy Wall Street. That movement has been handily forked into the completely pointless: Trump vs Mexicans, Bernie vs Billionaires, and Democrats vs Nazis
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    no powers that be, here. I was thinking of a Latino woman who was arrested while in labor for a traffic violation and she was handcuffed to the hospital bed and arrested as soon as she delivered. if she was rich that would not have happened. if she was white that would not have happened. poor people pay for being poor every day of their lives in dozens of ways. minorities pay for being minorities every day of their lives in dozens of ways. I could have separated wealth from race, yes, and I should have.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      >if she was rich that would not have happened. This is probably true. More specifically if the police knew she was rich. >if she was white that would not have happened. I dunno, I watch a lot of videos where cops behave badly, so much so I had to stop watching them because it was affecting my mood. There's plenty of white people who get treated like crap. It happens to everybody because it's not about race, it's about class. Here's a white guy getting tazed because he didn't comply fast enough. He didn't comply fast enough because he was deaf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYWJJkipPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYWJJkipPQ It's not about race, it's about class.

nostromo 4y ago

I dislike how bloodthirsty people are for her to serve over a decade of hard time. Lots of people serve less time than this in the US for literal murder. Remember, she was convicted only of wire-fraud against her investors - the same investors that did very little due diligence before they handed her billions of dollars.

mlyle 4y ago
> of hard time. I don't think this is a fair description and it's loaded to support your point of view. C.f. wikipedia: > Davila recommended she be incarcerated at Federal Prison Camp, Bryan, in Texas, a minimum security facility with limited or no perimeter fencing. "No one wants to get kicked out because compared to other places in the prison system, this place is heaven. If you have to go it's a good place to go," said a criminal defense lawyer.
- nostromo 4y ago
  Good. Prisons shouldn't be designed to torture people. Losing a decade of your life is not a small deal, even in a low-security prison. And the reason you get sent to minimum security prison is because you're not seen as a flight risk or as likely to be violent -- a measure she meets.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > Good. Prisons shouldn't be designed to torture people. No one here said they should. It was just pointed out that a Federal prison camp isn't a great match for "hard time", which carries the connotation of a particularly difficult penal institution. It seems a bit loaded.
busterarm 4y ago
It's not like just some clueless investors suffered. Rich people don't face consequences like that. They just tighten their purse strings. It hits the people they employ. Plus all of that investment money would otherwise have gone to a real business and employed tens of thousands of real people for decades. Her fraudulent enterprise robbed real opportunity from real people and real businesses. Edit: Also, it's not just about eagerness to see her serve prison time. She committed serious crimes and has been given multiple opportunities to express remorse for what she has done. At each opportunity she has instead chosen to double down on her innocence. This is why we're all eager to see her serve the maximum length and quality of time.

Entinel 4y ago

A lot of "eat the rich" type comments but you can do this if you aren't rich and aren't currently in custody. I knew a guy who was told to report to jail to begin his sentence and managed to delay it for 3 years. With appeals, medical extensions, and whatever other bullshit you can think of, you can keep this charade going for a long time.

sp332 4y ago
But her request to remain free during appeal was already denied on the 10th. https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/elizabeth-holmes-to-remain-free-for-now-prison-time-delayed-amid-appeal/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/elizabeth-holmes-to-...

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