4 ms·

Unfortunately it is worth noting that FDR instigated the greatest private wealth seizure in the history of the planet when he stole all of America's privately h

by shingen 15y ago

Unfortunately it is worth noting that FDR instigated the greatest private wealth seizure in the history of the planet when he stole all of America's privately held gold with force. If you've got a government that is willing to plunder like that, there's no great way to keep your wealth safe except to get yourself and your wealth out of the country.

gjm11 15y ago
> stole all of America's privately held gold Except for the bit where he, y'know, paid for it at the then-prevailing rate. (Which was defined by law, since at that point the US dollar was still on the gold standard.)
- dmm 15y ago
  If someone raped you and then paid you the then-prevailing rate for a whore, does that make it not rape? What makes an exchange stealing is the involuntary aspect.
  - Steko 15y ago
    "If someone raped you ... does that make it not rape" Stunning circular logic there. "Someone" =/= "democratically elected government with clearly enumerated power". We agreed on the Constitution and it says the government can take stuff as long as it pays you. Those are rules we agreed to. If we all agreed on a Constitution that said the President could have relations with whoever he wanted and then people chose to stay in this country and then the President chose to have relations with them we might question whether that still qualifies as rape.
- fennecfoxen 15y ago
  He paid for it at the then-prevailing rate so that you'd be stuck holding dollars, which he would then immediately depreciate through inflationary measures. Not that I'm a gold-bug, but, it was pretty rude.
- ta12121 15y ago
  Yes, and then immediately after taking the gold he changed the standard, so if you wanted to buy your original gold back you would have to pay more money. What happened was robbery.
  - nerfhammer 15y ago
    The only things buying gold from the US government were foreign national banks. The government never offered to sell gold to individuals after the gold clause abrogation.
- smokeyj 15y ago
  Except they paid market rate knowing full well what would happen to the buying power of dollars relative to gold. I like how people are willing to redefine theft to support their notions of benevolent government. You guys are a riot.
- beagle3 15y ago
  .... only to devalue the dollar by 50% or so as soon as it was believed there was not a lot of gold left in private hands. While "stealing the gold" is not technically correct, eliminating 50% of the value of everyone's saving IS, and the confiscation of gold was done to eliminate the best (and popular) store of value. Of course, it was all legal -- but when the government makes the laws, that statement is completely moot.
  - nerfhammer 15y ago
    To be more precise, FDR increased the price at which the government would buy gold from foreign buyers. The devaluation occurs in terms of foreign currency exchange. I don't think it's quite correct to put a 1:1 correspondence to that and "eliminating 50% of the value of everyone's savings". Maybe eliminated 50% the value of everyone's savings in Francs. Domestic purchasing power would be negatively affected for foreign goods, in theory it would create income in terms of increased exports.
  - Steko 15y ago
    "he confiscation of gold was done to eliminate the best (and popular) store of value." 'Best' no, 'popular' yes and that was crippling the economy.
    - beagle3 15y ago
      It was 'crippling the economy' in the same sense that Bill Gates and Warren Buffets money not being spent is "crippling the economy". And it what FDR has done to savers is just as fair as "liberating" said money from BillG and WarrenB's bank accounts would be.
      - Steko 15y ago
        "It was 'crippling the economy' in the same sense that Bill Gates and Warren Buffets money not being spent is "crippling the economy". " Umm no. What happened was people took their money out of the bank to hoard gold which crippled the money supply and credit markets. Which is exactly what would happen if Gates et al. decided to hold their money under the mattress instead of in the bank.
drumdance 15y ago
And given that such a thing can happen even in the US, which all things considered is very free and democratic compared to most of the world, what does that say about a strategy based on the allegedly intrinsic value of gold?

by shingen 15y ago

gjm11 15y ago

> stole all of America's privately held gold Except for the bit where he, y'know, paid for it at the then-prevailing rate. (Which was defined by law, since at that point the US dollar was still on the gold standard.)

dmm 15y ago
If someone raped you and then paid you the then-prevailing rate for a whore, does that make it not rape? What makes an exchange stealing is the involuntary aspect.
- Steko 15y ago
  "If someone raped you ... does that make it not rape" Stunning circular logic there. "Someone" =/= "democratically elected government with clearly enumerated power". We agreed on the Constitution and it says the government can take stuff as long as it pays you. Those are rules we agreed to. If we all agreed on a Constitution that said the President could have relations with whoever he wanted and then people chose to stay in this country and then the President chose to have relations with them we might question whether that still qualifies as rape.
fennecfoxen 15y ago
He paid for it at the then-prevailing rate so that you'd be stuck holding dollars, which he would then immediately depreciate through inflationary measures. Not that I'm a gold-bug, but, it was pretty rude.
ta12121 15y ago
Yes, and then immediately after taking the gold he changed the standard, so if you wanted to buy your original gold back you would have to pay more money. What happened was robbery.
- nerfhammer 15y ago
  The only things buying gold from the US government were foreign national banks. The government never offered to sell gold to individuals after the gold clause abrogation.
smokeyj 15y ago
Except they paid market rate knowing full well what would happen to the buying power of dollars relative to gold. I like how people are willing to redefine theft to support their notions of benevolent government. You guys are a riot.
beagle3 15y ago
.... only to devalue the dollar by 50% or so as soon as it was believed there was not a lot of gold left in private hands. While "stealing the gold" is not technically correct, eliminating 50% of the value of everyone's saving IS, and the confiscation of gold was done to eliminate the best (and popular) store of value. Of course, it was all legal -- but when the government makes the laws, that statement is completely moot.
- nerfhammer 15y ago
  To be more precise, FDR increased the price at which the government would buy gold from foreign buyers. The devaluation occurs in terms of foreign currency exchange. I don't think it's quite correct to put a 1:1 correspondence to that and "eliminating 50% of the value of everyone's savings". Maybe eliminated 50% the value of everyone's savings in Francs. Domestic purchasing power would be negatively affected for foreign goods, in theory it would create income in terms of increased exports.
- Steko 15y ago
  "he confiscation of gold was done to eliminate the best (and popular) store of value." 'Best' no, 'popular' yes and that was crippling the economy.
  - beagle3 15y ago
    It was 'crippling the economy' in the same sense that Bill Gates and Warren Buffets money not being spent is "crippling the economy". And it what FDR has done to savers is just as fair as "liberating" said money from BillG and WarrenB's bank accounts would be.
    - Steko 15y ago
      "It was 'crippling the economy' in the same sense that Bill Gates and Warren Buffets money not being spent is "crippling the economy". " Umm no. What happened was people took their money out of the bank to hoard gold which crippled the money supply and credit markets. Which is exactly what would happen if Gates et al. decided to hold their money under the mattress instead of in the bank.

drumdance 15y ago

And given that such a thing can happen even in the US, which all things considered is very free and democratic compared to most of the world, what does that say about a strategy based on the allegedly intrinsic value of gold?