3 ms·

Having looked you up and getting a profile, I would agree that culture is a factor but I still put it in the bucket of “unconfirmed significance”. Funny how ste

Having looked you up and getting a profile, I would agree that culture is a factor but I still put it in the bucket of “unconfirmed significance”. Funny how stereotypes recall memories, but I am parts repulsed and parts impressed by the pigeonhole you fill. Anyways, it’s perhaps less about you than the milieu you represent. I imagine you can apply culture similarly to why white Americans would choose their own to advance up career ladders.

rayiner 3y ago
Looking at your post history I suspect we are culturally not that different. That culture certainly seems like it helped (discouraging dating when young, getting and staying married, having children which creates motivation, etc). White Americans don’t “choose their own to advance.” People from my part of the world, and yours, are way more likely to favor their own ethnic groups.
- erenyeager 3y ago
  I agree with you on ethnic favoring in some sense, but it’s a complex topic. And white Americans have an entire culture reinforcing their customs, way of life, ways of interacting, etc. All this contributes to how a corporate culture is very accommodating to the dominant culture. For example Sunday as a weekend is not a mere cultural relic but actively supports a particular culture. I see people often point to hard-working of Asian cultures to contrast against the “under performing” minorities like black culture. But I think this undersells a lot of structural discrimination and history. Anyways, this is why I have skepticism towards “model minorities” wanting to integrate into white culture customs and assume a dominant position in society. A lot of the narrative of “hard-working immigrant” and cultural exceptionalism ignores the sociopolitical context of why certain minority groups are underprivileged.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    And in Bangladesh where I’m from Friday and Saturday are the weekend days to accommodate Friday prayers. People would get very mad if foreigners came to Bangladesh and complained about that. To me, it’s more of an assimilation into “white culture” to come to America as a foreigner and then loudly insist that the dominant culture change to accommodate you. It’s quintessential white American individualism. The situation of ADOS is of course different. Their ancestors didn’t come here as voluntary immigrants to an already developed country. There is no comparison. But I think that point cuts both ways. How I act as an invited guest in this country isn’t any commentary on the entirely unrelated political situation of ADOS people. It would be utterly disingenuous of me to complain about a system where people like me do far better in nearly every metric than the dominant culture.
    - erenyeager 3y ago
      Foreignness in America is quite different consider how traces of native peoples have been erased and marginalized. And if American culture is to deliver on an individualistic promise, we should expect to see more changes in the dominant culture. But white cultural dominance has a fragile ego, having been established through violence and discrimination, which by the way is not so unique as far as dominant cultures go. But discussions of culture will inevitably touch on the factors that gave rise to certain features. So the fact that many black Americans have ancestry in slaves trafficked to the US, is not separable from the discussion on why Asian Americans are discriminated in higher education admissions. Anyways, call what I say rooted in Americanism or what have you, the fact is Bangladeshi culture has a much different history than American culture, so calls to be accommodating of other cultures in America strike a different tone than it would in trying to change Bangladeshi culture (itself rooted in a reaction against erasure of language and culture). Finally, all of this is to say, while culture has an influence in some regards, it’s not so separate from the wealth gaps and inequities which stratify folks.
      - rayiner 3y ago
        I mean, the process by which I came to have an Arabic surname coming from a place 3,000 miles away from the Middle East was not exactly bunnies and rainbows. I hear what you’re saying, but it seems to me like you’re calling for a moral double standard. It implicitly assumes that Americans have a capacity to behave to a higher standard than Bangladeshis or Indians or Chinese. I remember talking with someone about Trump voters, and I mentioned I had no trouble understanding them because they’re reacting just like Bangladeshis would if the shoe were on the other foot. And this very liberal white lady says disgustedly: “well, this isn’t Bangladesh.” One of the only times I’ve ever encountered a white American express to my face that they believe they’re morally superior.
        erenyeager 3y ago
        No moral double standard, just standard. I believe American culture is deficient in many aspects, and so requires change and criticism is one vehicle for this. Similarly, Arab, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, etc culture will have its deficiencies. For a long time America has this belief of “exceptionalism” and sometimes to a crazy degree where its people act like they are the center of the world. That the cracks are showing and people are recognizing unfairness is a laudable thing. Your first paragraph makes a great observation, that your culture is intrinsically tied to historical factors, in this case political dominance and religious and cultural spread. So the habits a person of a certain culture has, these are rooted in what they inherited of this culture. These habits are a result of historical influences, which includes previously mentioned inequities, wealth gaps, etc.

rayiner 3y ago

Looking at your post history I suspect we are culturally not that different. That culture certainly seems like it helped (discouraging dating when young, getting and staying married, having children which creates motivation, etc). White Americans don’t “choose their own to advance.” People from my part of the world, and yours, are way more likely to favor their own ethnic groups.

erenyeager 3y ago
I agree with you on ethnic favoring in some sense, but it’s a complex topic. And white Americans have an entire culture reinforcing their customs, way of life, ways of interacting, etc. All this contributes to how a corporate culture is very accommodating to the dominant culture. For example Sunday as a weekend is not a mere cultural relic but actively supports a particular culture. I see people often point to hard-working of Asian cultures to contrast against the “under performing” minorities like black culture. But I think this undersells a lot of structural discrimination and history. Anyways, this is why I have skepticism towards “model minorities” wanting to integrate into white culture customs and assume a dominant position in society. A lot of the narrative of “hard-working immigrant” and cultural exceptionalism ignores the sociopolitical context of why certain minority groups are underprivileged.
- rayiner 3y ago
  And in Bangladesh where I’m from Friday and Saturday are the weekend days to accommodate Friday prayers. People would get very mad if foreigners came to Bangladesh and complained about that. To me, it’s more of an assimilation into “white culture” to come to America as a foreigner and then loudly insist that the dominant culture change to accommodate you. It’s quintessential white American individualism. The situation of ADOS is of course different. Their ancestors didn’t come here as voluntary immigrants to an already developed country. There is no comparison. But I think that point cuts both ways. How I act as an invited guest in this country isn’t any commentary on the entirely unrelated political situation of ADOS people. It would be utterly disingenuous of me to complain about a system where people like me do far better in nearly every metric than the dominant culture.
  - erenyeager 3y ago
    Foreignness in America is quite different consider how traces of native peoples have been erased and marginalized. And if American culture is to deliver on an individualistic promise, we should expect to see more changes in the dominant culture. But white cultural dominance has a fragile ego, having been established through violence and discrimination, which by the way is not so unique as far as dominant cultures go. But discussions of culture will inevitably touch on the factors that gave rise to certain features. So the fact that many black Americans have ancestry in slaves trafficked to the US, is not separable from the discussion on why Asian Americans are discriminated in higher education admissions. Anyways, call what I say rooted in Americanism or what have you, the fact is Bangladeshi culture has a much different history than American culture, so calls to be accommodating of other cultures in America strike a different tone than it would in trying to change Bangladeshi culture (itself rooted in a reaction against erasure of language and culture). Finally, all of this is to say, while culture has an influence in some regards, it’s not so separate from the wealth gaps and inequities which stratify folks.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      I mean, the process by which I came to have an Arabic surname coming from a place 3,000 miles away from the Middle East was not exactly bunnies and rainbows. I hear what you’re saying, but it seems to me like you’re calling for a moral double standard. It implicitly assumes that Americans have a capacity to behave to a higher standard than Bangladeshis or Indians or Chinese. I remember talking with someone about Trump voters, and I mentioned I had no trouble understanding them because they’re reacting just like Bangladeshis would if the shoe were on the other foot. And this very liberal white lady says disgustedly: “well, this isn’t Bangladesh.” One of the only times I’ve ever encountered a white American express to my face that they believe they’re morally superior.
      - erenyeager 3y ago
        No moral double standard, just standard. I believe American culture is deficient in many aspects, and so requires change and criticism is one vehicle for this. Similarly, Arab, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, etc culture will have its deficiencies. For a long time America has this belief of “exceptionalism” and sometimes to a crazy degree where its people act like they are the center of the world. That the cracks are showing and people are recognizing unfairness is a laudable thing. Your first paragraph makes a great observation, that your culture is intrinsically tied to historical factors, in this case political dominance and religious and cultural spread. So the habits a person of a certain culture has, these are rooted in what they inherited of this culture. These habits are a result of historical influences, which includes previously mentioned inequities, wealth gaps, etc.