4 ms·

Controvery of what? Did you read Gebru's paper? For instance, her calculation of carbon footprint of training BERT assumes that companies will train BERT 24x7.

Controvery of what? Did you read Gebru's paper? For instance, her calculation of carbon footprint of training BERT assumes that companies will train BERT 24x7. Gebru is a disgrace to the community because she always, I mean literally always, attacks her critics by motives. You think bias is a data problem? You're a bigot (See her dispute with LeCun). You disagree with my assessment on an ML model? You are white male oppressor (her attacking a Google's SVP). Gebru is not a researcher. She is a modern-age Trofim Lysenko, who politicizes everything and weaponizes political correctness. And yeah, she deserves to be fired. Many times.

marricks 4y ago
Crazy that her boss and people she mentored all loved her. It’s almost like the system screwed her and she’s rightly angry at it. I get it, easier to type cast her as an angry black woman though!
erenyeager 4y ago
Ok but the lack of underrepresented minorities in the field and the important role people like Gebru played in extending the political and status of minorities is ok to extinguish? We need more than just white male / Chinese male / Indian male monoculture “STEM lords”. This is already recognized in fields like medicine, where minorities treating minorities results in better outcomes and the greater push to open positions of status to minorities.
- qumpis 4y ago
  Yes, uplifting minorities is great, but anyone should be accountable equally when it comes to workplace conduct
- logicchains 4y ago
  >Ok but the lack of underrepresented minorities in the field and the important role people like Gebru played in extending the political and status of minorities is ok to extinguish? Yes it's okay to extinguish it if hiring underrepresented minorities means hiring bad actors like her who contribute nothing of value. Scientific truth is scientific truth; if you hire people for the color of their skin or their sexuality instead of their ability to produce truth, you slow the progress of science and make the world worse for everyone.
- belval 4y ago
  This seems like a pretty bad faith argument that illustrates exactly the point the parent comment was making. Firing Gebru for insubordination is not "extinguishing" anything, it's getting rid of an employee that was actively taking pot shots at the company in her paper and somehow equated getting fired with anti-minority bias. In practice, Google is already much more tolerant of activism than the average tech company and she was unable to play by the corporate rules.
- Silverback_VII 4y ago
  I personally believe that racial or diversity quotas are even more racist or sexist. We should expect minorities to develop their own culture of intellectual excellence. After all, they are no longer children. Giving them a shortcut is a form of insult. Providing someone an advantage based on their race or sex at the expense of someone else who is more qualified due to their race or sex is nonsensical. Companies may fail as a result of such practices. Ultimately, what truly matters is how innovative and efficient a company is.
- hintymad 4y ago
  > important role people like Gebru played in extending the political and status of minorities is ok to extinguish? No, she didn't. Attacking everyone for baseless motives and identities is the worst kind of activism. She alienated people by attacking them without basis. She disdained those who truly fought for the fairness and justice of every race. She left a bad taste in people who truly cared about progress. Yes, it's totally worth "extinguishing" her role, as her role is nothing but a political charade. As for under-repented minorities, do you even know the Chinese Exclusion Act? Do you know how large the pipeline of the STEM students in different races and why there was a gap? Do you know why the median GPA of the high school students in the inner city was 0.5X out of 4? Why was that? The questions can fill a book. Yeah, activism is easy, as long as you have the right skin and shameless attitude. Solving real problems is hard.
  - erenyeager 4y ago
    Take a look at this lecture about the history of slavery and racism in the US then [1]. This will provide an answer many of your questions. Dismissing a prominent PoC’s position for being outspoken and critical of existing unfairness really demonstrates who is maintaining political power here. Do you really think that centuries of unfairness and trauma that still is perpetuated today will be swept under the rug by your fantasy of “equivalent” treatment? Equity is about Justice which is fundamentally about ethics. So tell me why are you so rooted and uncomfortable with confronting historical injustice? 1: https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8 https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8

marricks 4y ago

Crazy that her boss and people she mentored all loved her. It’s almost like the system screwed her and she’s rightly angry at it. I get it, easier to type cast her as an angry black woman though!

erenyeager 4y ago

Ok but the lack of underrepresented minorities in the field and the important role people like Gebru played in extending the political and status of minorities is ok to extinguish? We need more than just white male / Chinese male / Indian male monoculture “STEM lords”. This is already recognized in fields like medicine, where minorities treating minorities results in better outcomes and the greater push to open positions of status to minorities.

qumpis 4y ago
Yes, uplifting minorities is great, but anyone should be accountable equally when it comes to workplace conduct
logicchains 4y ago
>Ok but the lack of underrepresented minorities in the field and the important role people like Gebru played in extending the political and status of minorities is ok to extinguish? Yes it's okay to extinguish it if hiring underrepresented minorities means hiring bad actors like her who contribute nothing of value. Scientific truth is scientific truth; if you hire people for the color of their skin or their sexuality instead of their ability to produce truth, you slow the progress of science and make the world worse for everyone.
belval 4y ago
This seems like a pretty bad faith argument that illustrates exactly the point the parent comment was making. Firing Gebru for insubordination is not "extinguishing" anything, it's getting rid of an employee that was actively taking pot shots at the company in her paper and somehow equated getting fired with anti-minority bias. In practice, Google is already much more tolerant of activism than the average tech company and she was unable to play by the corporate rules.
Silverback_VII 4y ago
I personally believe that racial or diversity quotas are even more racist or sexist. We should expect minorities to develop their own culture of intellectual excellence. After all, they are no longer children. Giving them a shortcut is a form of insult. Providing someone an advantage based on their race or sex at the expense of someone else who is more qualified due to their race or sex is nonsensical. Companies may fail as a result of such practices. Ultimately, what truly matters is how innovative and efficient a company is.
hintymad 4y ago
> important role people like Gebru played in extending the political and status of minorities is ok to extinguish? No, she didn't. Attacking everyone for baseless motives and identities is the worst kind of activism. She alienated people by attacking them without basis. She disdained those who truly fought for the fairness and justice of every race. She left a bad taste in people who truly cared about progress. Yes, it's totally worth "extinguishing" her role, as her role is nothing but a political charade. As for under-repented minorities, do you even know the Chinese Exclusion Act? Do you know how large the pipeline of the STEM students in different races and why there was a gap? Do you know why the median GPA of the high school students in the inner city was 0.5X out of 4? Why was that? The questions can fill a book. Yeah, activism is easy, as long as you have the right skin and shameless attitude. Solving real problems is hard.
- erenyeager 4y ago
  Take a look at this lecture about the history of slavery and racism in the US then [1]. This will provide an answer many of your questions. Dismissing a prominent PoC’s position for being outspoken and critical of existing unfairness really demonstrates who is maintaining political power here. Do you really think that centuries of unfairness and trauma that still is perpetuated today will be swept under the rug by your fantasy of “equivalent” treatment? Equity is about Justice which is fundamentally about ethics. So tell me why are you so rooted and uncomfortable with confronting historical injustice? 1: https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8 https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8