5 ms·

I get why people want the end of the App Store monopoly and I apprieciate the idea of being able to run anything I want on my hardware, but this here is the rea

by yreg 4y ago

I get why people want the end of the App Store monopoly and I apprieciate the idea of being able to run anything I want on my hardware, but this here is the reason why I'm hesitant. As a user I want the big developers to have to bend the knee to Apple. I don't want to side load my DJI app, I don't want to download Instagram from the Meta store. I don't agree with all of Apple's rules (and also with the way the app revenue is split), but I'm mostly satisfied with them.

archagon 4y ago
Then the future of computing will be in the hands of mega-corporations. Have an innovative app idea that goes against corporate policy? Too bad, won't happen. Strict sandboxing and a robust permissions model can still give you security with these kinds of apps.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rektide 4y ago
  It really bothers me that DJI is basically the one notable example that gives the anti-sideloading FUD-dites some ammunition. It's generally not a real issue, DJI are just extra punks, and yeah, sandboxing should offer really good protection in general, but maybe maybe your drone is live uploading all drone data to the CCP perhaps. Freedom enables choice. Humanity's greatness is built entirely off our ability to explore possibilities & create new ways. Gating innovation behind what Apple & all the governments permit us is just not an option for the most important most noospheric device on the planet. Not having choices is to let ourselves be chained up in the PKD Black Iron Prison. I refuse that dejection.
  - yreg 4y ago
    >Freedom enables choice. One could argue that also for the freedom to choose a curated platform. Android exists and prospers, I have a choice.
    - rektide 4y ago
      What happens when Android starts clamping down, as they have? Android ever more ratchets shit down, and more and more essential apps like Termux simply can't make it through the Google gauntlet. What happens if Android stops allowing sideloading? I hear this defense a lot from the anti-sideloaders, that it's fine that this platform have no freedom, because there's another popular platform with some freedom. Even with the DJI example here before us (which so far has been icky but had no known actual bad consequences), I roundly do not get the argument, do not see the appeal of being trapped, of arguing everyone else on this platform needs to be under the fist of Cook & every government on the planet & without feet to stand on. And it's repugnant to me that the defense is that there is one other platform where freedom exists, as if it's OK that one set of folks fall down the slippery slide & leave the rest of humanity tottering for themselves, trying to keep feet under them against perpetual universal software helplessness. Apple has basically been winning the AT&T position against Carterphone. They've used monopoly power to control push around dominate & extract, to make up whatever terms it wants for the world. That's a position that damned & binds humanity, and one we have rejected already quite clearly, but now that computers are involved it's free game to coral the humans & other entities & to rollback the Carterphone right to modify the world about you. There's one plan I'm OK with here, which is Apple can keep it's closed platform but has to let other OS run on iPhone & make equal use of the hardware. If apple demands control over iOS, I think that's an alternative out for hardware owners.
      - yreg 4y ago
        >There's one plan I'm OK with here, which is Apple can keep it's closed platform but has to let other OS run on iPhone & make equal use of the hardware. This is an interesting idea. It sounds pretty good actually.
      - a-user-you-like 4y ago
        It hasn’t yet, but if they do there are already alternatives in the Android world. That might the chance that Microsoft, Amazon, Epic, or any other company might take to launch a phone that allows sideloading.
  - some_random 4y ago
    Yeah punks totally, doing punk activities like profiting off the genocide of an ethnic minority. I absolutely want to give unfettered access to my device to an economic arm of the CCP and anyone who's against that is just spreading FUD
  - kmlx 4y ago
    > It really bothers me that DJI is basically the one notable example that gives the anti-sideloading FUD-dites some ammunition. https://www.fortnite.com/mobile/android/ https://www.fortnite.com/mobile/android/
i_am_jl 4y ago
This is the third or fourth time I've heard this sentiment lately and I don't understand it. Why would the ability to sideload apps impact the ability of Apple to curate app quality in their app store? Given that I can sideload Android apps, why can I still download Instagram from the Play store?
- yreg 4y ago
  Well, that's easy. Developers who are big enough (like Meta or Tencent) can leave App Store and distribute the apps through their own store where they don't have to succumb to any rules. The customers will have to follow. Now, you might want to say, I don't have to use their apps, and you are right. But I'm happy with the current situation. I want to use Instagram and I want Apple to negotiate what the app can and cannot do for me. I want to fly my DJI drone. (You cannot download the DJI app on the Play Store. You have to sideload it on Android. On iOS it is in the App Store because it has no choice.)

by yreg 4y ago

archagon 4y ago

Then the future of computing will be in the hands of mega-corporations. Have an innovative app idea that goes against corporate policy? Too bad, won't happen. Strict sandboxing and a robust permissions model can still give you security with these kinds of apps.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rektide 4y ago
It really bothers me that DJI is basically the one notable example that gives the anti-sideloading FUD-dites some ammunition. It's generally not a real issue, DJI are just extra punks, and yeah, sandboxing should offer really good protection in general, but maybe maybe your drone is live uploading all drone data to the CCP perhaps. Freedom enables choice. Humanity's greatness is built entirely off our ability to explore possibilities & create new ways. Gating innovation behind what Apple & all the governments permit us is just not an option for the most important most noospheric device on the planet. Not having choices is to let ourselves be chained up in the PKD Black Iron Prison. I refuse that dejection.
- yreg 4y ago
  >Freedom enables choice. One could argue that also for the freedom to choose a curated platform. Android exists and prospers, I have a choice.
  - rektide 4y ago
    What happens when Android starts clamping down, as they have? Android ever more ratchets shit down, and more and more essential apps like Termux simply can't make it through the Google gauntlet. What happens if Android stops allowing sideloading? I hear this defense a lot from the anti-sideloaders, that it's fine that this platform have no freedom, because there's another popular platform with some freedom. Even with the DJI example here before us (which so far has been icky but had no known actual bad consequences), I roundly do not get the argument, do not see the appeal of being trapped, of arguing everyone else on this platform needs to be under the fist of Cook & every government on the planet & without feet to stand on. And it's repugnant to me that the defense is that there is one other platform where freedom exists, as if it's OK that one set of folks fall down the slippery slide & leave the rest of humanity tottering for themselves, trying to keep feet under them against perpetual universal software helplessness. Apple has basically been winning the AT&T position against Carterphone. They've used monopoly power to control push around dominate & extract, to make up whatever terms it wants for the world. That's a position that damned & binds humanity, and one we have rejected already quite clearly, but now that computers are involved it's free game to coral the humans & other entities & to rollback the Carterphone right to modify the world about you. There's one plan I'm OK with here, which is Apple can keep it's closed platform but has to let other OS run on iPhone & make equal use of the hardware. If apple demands control over iOS, I think that's an alternative out for hardware owners.
    - yreg 4y ago
      >There's one plan I'm OK with here, which is Apple can keep it's closed platform but has to let other OS run on iPhone & make equal use of the hardware. This is an interesting idea. It sounds pretty good actually.
    - a-user-you-like 4y ago
      It hasn’t yet, but if they do there are already alternatives in the Android world. That might the chance that Microsoft, Amazon, Epic, or any other company might take to launch a phone that allows sideloading.
- some_random 4y ago
  Yeah punks totally, doing punk activities like profiting off the genocide of an ethnic minority. I absolutely want to give unfettered access to my device to an economic arm of the CCP and anyone who's against that is just spreading FUD
- kmlx 4y ago
  > It really bothers me that DJI is basically the one notable example that gives the anti-sideloading FUD-dites some ammunition. https://www.fortnite.com/mobile/android/ https://www.fortnite.com/mobile/android/

i_am_jl 4y ago

This is the third or fourth time I've heard this sentiment lately and I don't understand it. Why would the ability to sideload apps impact the ability of Apple to curate app quality in their app store? Given that I can sideload Android apps, why can I still download Instagram from the Play store?

yreg 4y ago
Well, that's easy. Developers who are big enough (like Meta or Tencent) can leave App Store and distribute the apps through their own store where they don't have to succumb to any rules. The customers will have to follow. Now, you might want to say, I don't have to use their apps, and you are right. But I'm happy with the current situation. I want to use Instagram and I want Apple to negotiate what the app can and cannot do for me. I want to fly my DJI drone. (You cannot download the DJI app on the Play Store. You have to sideload it on Android. On iOS it is in the App Store because it has no choice.)