4 ms·

Excellent recommendation. I always use that book to explain to people how I grew up very differently from folks in the US (where I now live). English: https://

by verst 3y ago

Excellent recommendation. I always use that book to explain to people how I grew up very differently from folks in the US (where I now live). English: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/24571 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/24571 German: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/24571/24571-h/24571-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/24571/24571-h/24571-h.htm

guenthert 3y ago
My sarcasm detector is failing me. Mid 19th century Germany (around the time the Struwwelpeter was written, that would have been the Deutscher Bund, when nationalism was seen as progressive) is culturally, sociologically more different from late 20th century Germany then late 20th century Germany from late 20th century USA methinks.
- yorwba 3y ago
  The Struwwelpeter continues to be part of German culture.
- verst 3y ago
  German parenting is very different from American parenting. Struwwelpeter is an extreme, but it does capture the essence of the tough love approach, emphasis on following rules (or suffer the consequences) etc Certain elements of German culture did not just develop in the last 150-200 years :)
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Extreme? I read it when I was 6 or 7, and was amused by it. I have a number of books that are inappropriate for children, but Struwwelpeter isn't one of them.
    - verst 3y ago
      Exaggerated might be a better word. It is stories meant to educate kids on proper behavior. The consequences shown in Struwwelpeter are just empty threats parents make - but depicted in that book. I also read it at age 6 or so. Many American parents would find it inappropriate for kids given how graphic and negative it is. I think it is a classic however.
    - cloogshicer 3y ago
      I'd call cutting a child's thumbs off as a punishment for sucking on them pretty extreme. Or being burnt alive for playing with matches. And yes, I'm German.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        Hardly worse than Hansel and Gretel being popped in the oven. The burnt alive story was not about punishment. It was about what could happen if you play with matches. Fire doesn't care how old you are. As for the tailor, even I at 6 or 7 knew that wasn't going to happen. I didn't know any kids who were missing thumbs!
- nescioquid 3y ago
  I started watching German television on YouTube a couple years ago and had a very eerie feeling when I discovered the ZDF Heute Show and Harald Schmidt's show (modeled after the Daily Show and David Letterman, respectively). It might seem trite to point out a couple of television shows, but it was certainly a surprise to me. Do you think the similarity owes more to US involvement in post-war reconstruction or general globalization? One of the things I like about the Heute Show is that the gags often point at some cultural thing I knew nothing about (in fact, I think it was one of those gags that led me to reading Stuwwelpeter in the first place). Similarly, I encountered something last week that prompted me to read Max und Moritz. So I assume these things still have cultural relevance, even if as a sort of short-hand, but I certainly see your point (edit: at least superficially).
  - guenthert 3y ago
    In the aftermath of WW2, it surely was the post-war reconstruction (in what became West Germany at least). Later on, US cultural exports from Disney to Mc Donalds dominated. Hollywood, satellite t.v. and now the WWW have major influences (cue "Amerika" by Fee). Germany isn't a small US, there remain significant differences (for the better or worse), but travelling (later immigrating) from Germany to US, the latter seemed eerily familiar and strange at the same time. I'd wager that kids in Germany today (or for the last 40 years or so) can relate more to Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn than to Struwwelpeter, not the least because the former was made into a (quite well done) t.v. show dubbed and broadcast in Germany.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    Lots of US TV gets adapted for other markets. Check out how many US-original game shows have Chinese versions, for instance. Lots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_game_shows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_game_sho... Sitcoms also get adapted pretty often. Talk and panel shows, sometimes. We do the same thing in the US, just a bit less because we've got a really, really big domestic entertainment industry, so something's got to seem just right (in terms of "will this make money?") to get picked up, shouldering its way past all the US-original shows trying to get made, but it does happen. The Office, Power Rangers (half import, half adaptation), Iron Chef, Ninja Warrior (also has a German version!) and a bunch of others.

by verst 3y ago

guenthert 3y ago

My sarcasm detector is failing me. Mid 19th century Germany (around the time the Struwwelpeter was written, that would have been the Deutscher Bund, when nationalism was seen as progressive) is culturally, sociologically more different from late 20th century Germany then late 20th century Germany from late 20th century USA methinks.

yorwba 3y ago
The Struwwelpeter continues to be part of German culture.
verst 3y ago
German parenting is very different from American parenting. Struwwelpeter is an extreme, but it does capture the essence of the tough love approach, emphasis on following rules (or suffer the consequences) etc Certain elements of German culture did not just develop in the last 150-200 years :)
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Extreme? I read it when I was 6 or 7, and was amused by it. I have a number of books that are inappropriate for children, but Struwwelpeter isn't one of them.
  - verst 3y ago
    Exaggerated might be a better word. It is stories meant to educate kids on proper behavior. The consequences shown in Struwwelpeter are just empty threats parents make - but depicted in that book. I also read it at age 6 or so. Many American parents would find it inappropriate for kids given how graphic and negative it is. I think it is a classic however.
  - cloogshicer 3y ago
    I'd call cutting a child's thumbs off as a punishment for sucking on them pretty extreme. Or being burnt alive for playing with matches. And yes, I'm German.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Hardly worse than Hansel and Gretel being popped in the oven. The burnt alive story was not about punishment. It was about what could happen if you play with matches. Fire doesn't care how old you are. As for the tailor, even I at 6 or 7 knew that wasn't going to happen. I didn't know any kids who were missing thumbs!
nescioquid 3y ago
I started watching German television on YouTube a couple years ago and had a very eerie feeling when I discovered the ZDF Heute Show and Harald Schmidt's show (modeled after the Daily Show and David Letterman, respectively). It might seem trite to point out a couple of television shows, but it was certainly a surprise to me. Do you think the similarity owes more to US involvement in post-war reconstruction or general globalization? One of the things I like about the Heute Show is that the gags often point at some cultural thing I knew nothing about (in fact, I think it was one of those gags that led me to reading Stuwwelpeter in the first place). Similarly, I encountered something last week that prompted me to read Max und Moritz. So I assume these things still have cultural relevance, even if as a sort of short-hand, but I certainly see your point (edit: at least superficially).
- guenthert 3y ago
  In the aftermath of WW2, it surely was the post-war reconstruction (in what became West Germany at least). Later on, US cultural exports from Disney to Mc Donalds dominated. Hollywood, satellite t.v. and now the WWW have major influences (cue "Amerika" by Fee). Germany isn't a small US, there remain significant differences (for the better or worse), but travelling (later immigrating) from Germany to US, the latter seemed eerily familiar and strange at the same time. I'd wager that kids in Germany today (or for the last 40 years or so) can relate more to Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn than to Struwwelpeter, not the least because the former was made into a (quite well done) t.v. show dubbed and broadcast in Germany.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  Lots of US TV gets adapted for other markets. Check out how many US-original game shows have Chinese versions, for instance. Lots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_game_shows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_game_sho... Sitcoms also get adapted pretty often. Talk and panel shows, sometimes. We do the same thing in the US, just a bit less because we've got a really, really big domestic entertainment industry, so something's got to seem just right (in terms of "will this make money?") to get picked up, shouldering its way past all the US-original shows trying to get made, but it does happen. The Office, Power Rangers (half import, half adaptation), Iron Chef, Ninja Warrior (also has a German version!) and a bunch of others.