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The United States already has a lot of semiconductor fabs. It was only in recent years that AMD processors fabricated by TSMC overtook the performance of Intel

The United States already has a lot of semiconductor fabs. It was only in recent years that AMD processors fabricated by TSMC overtook the performance of Intel processors fabricated by Intel. Is there something about newer process nodes that makes the employment conditions worse? Otherwise, I'd point to Intel fabs in the United States as an existence proof that the USA can get qualified workers for domestic semiconductor fabrication. (Plus US fabs operated by Texas Instruments, Samsung, GlobalFoundries, and others.)

Robotbeat 4y ago
We were discussing being competitive with peers and what peers are doing vs what we are doing. It seemed pretty relevant. Also, I mentally separate long working hours from other aspects of “worker conditions.” You can have low working hours but a toxic and unsafe work environment or a physically safe and supportive work environment with long hours. You can also have high and low pay with various working hours (although typically high pay isn’t supported by low working hours unless the business has some sort of massive moat).
- philipkglass 4y ago
  I'm saying that I don't know whether employees working insane hours is a necessary or incidental component of the TSMC success story. Up until very recently American fabs were technological leaders with (presumably) less insane hours for employees. My expectation is that American fabs with American-norm working hours would remain competitive as long as they didn't fall behind on node shrinks, which Intel notably failed at in recent years. Of course it's possible that insane working hours were why TSMC employees got EUV photolithography working at scale before any American manufacturer did. Was that the key difference between Intel and TSMC? It's a question that I personally haven't seen an answer to.
  - garaetjjte 4y ago
    Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35667282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35667282

Robotbeat 4y ago

We were discussing being competitive with peers and what peers are doing vs what we are doing. It seemed pretty relevant. Also, I mentally separate long working hours from other aspects of “worker conditions.” You can have low working hours but a toxic and unsafe work environment or a physically safe and supportive work environment with long hours. You can also have high and low pay with various working hours (although typically high pay isn’t supported by low working hours unless the business has some sort of massive moat).

philipkglass 4y ago
I'm saying that I don't know whether employees working insane hours is a necessary or incidental component of the TSMC success story. Up until very recently American fabs were technological leaders with (presumably) less insane hours for employees. My expectation is that American fabs with American-norm working hours would remain competitive as long as they didn't fall behind on node shrinks, which Intel notably failed at in recent years. Of course it's possible that insane working hours were why TSMC employees got EUV photolithography working at scale before any American manufacturer did. Was that the key difference between Intel and TSMC? It's a question that I personally haven't seen an answer to.
- garaetjjte 4y ago
  Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35667282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35667282