3 ms·

Like when you change the gender/race of literature/historical characters to hit a diversity quota or when there is a whole carousel of movies with the genre “Bl

Like when you change the gender/race of literature/historical characters to hit a diversity quota or when there is a whole carousel of movies with the genre “Black History Month” which is a US thing. That kind of stuff

rootusrootus 4y ago
That seems like a better point -- at least, the part about changing the gender/race/etc of a real (or perhaps mythical, but well established) person. Although I gotta say, I sure did enjoy Hamilton in spite of the wild disregard for trying to make the actors resemble the people they were portraying. Certainly more solid than what I usually hear from local people, which tends to just be complaints that a minority position was represented at all, even if it is an entirely new character. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
sosodev 4y ago
Characters in modern takes on historical media have always been heavily modified. Why is editing their gender or skin tone not okay? Also, can't you just scroll past a carousel representing a genre you're not interested in? Are other carousels for things like musicals woke too?
- seydor 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - sosodev 4y ago
    Why did you delete the variety link? It was a thoughtful exploration of the problem. This is undoubtedly a complex issue but I don't know that their approach can be dismissed as "woke".
    - seydor 4y ago
      She literally says it was a political act for her, but the most problematic is this: > I have asked Egyptians to see themselves as Africans, and they are furious at me for that if you try to lump all the cultures of africa in a single word 'black' that is synonym 'african-american' then yes it s very woke and insulting to egyptians (who are more culturally arab than sub-saharan). Asking egyptians to see themselves as african-american is profoundly american myopia, but netflix doesn't even see that.
  - foldr 4y ago
    >So, was Cleopatra Black? We don’t know for sure, but we can be certain she wasn’t white like Elizabeth Taylor. Seems like a fair point. I'd take this outrage more seriously if the same people were also protesting about the innumerable portrayals of Cleopatra by white actresses.
    - seydor 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - foldr 4y ago
        >but over the trailer of the documentary (i added the link) which literally says she was a black woman. Err, no, it doesn't literally say that. There is: 1) A man with light brown skin saying that he imagines Cleopatra as having the same skin tone as him and curly hair, which is entirely plausible (though far from certain) given what is known about her ancestry. 2) A woman saying that her grandma told her that Cleopatra was black. It's nothing more than a nod to the longstanding controversy over Cleopatra's race and appearance, which far predates anything usually covered by the meaningless term of abuse 'woke'. Part of the problem here is that 'black' as a racial category didn't really exist in Egypt in the 1st century BC, so it's a bit of a silly debate anyway.
        seydor 4y ago
        [flagged]
        foldr 4y ago
        It briefly shows one person saying that their grandma said it. There's no suggestion that any particular claim about Cleopatra's appearance is endorsed by the documentary as definitely true. In general, as I'm sure you're aware, it's misleading to say that a documentary "says X" if X isn't a claim that the documentary itself is endorsing. > they could at least show a bust of her Are you sure that they don't? This is just the trailer. Perhaps they could use this racially ambiguous 1862 depiction of Cleopatra by William Wetmore Story: https://smarthistory.org/seeing-america-2/william-wetmore-story-cleopatra/ https://smarthistory.org/seeing-america-2/william-wetmore-st... (The 1860s were, of course, a notoriously 'woke' period of American history.)

rootusrootus 4y ago

That seems like a better point -- at least, the part about changing the gender/race/etc of a real (or perhaps mythical, but well established) person. Although I gotta say, I sure did enjoy Hamilton in spite of the wild disregard for trying to make the actors resemble the people they were portraying. Certainly more solid than what I usually hear from local people, which tends to just be complaints that a minority position was represented at all, even if it is an entirely new character. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

sosodev 4y ago

Characters in modern takes on historical media have always been heavily modified. Why is editing their gender or skin tone not okay? Also, can't you just scroll past a carousel representing a genre you're not interested in? Are other carousels for things like musicals woke too?

seydor 4y ago
[flagged]
- sosodev 4y ago
  Why did you delete the variety link? It was a thoughtful exploration of the problem. This is undoubtedly a complex issue but I don't know that their approach can be dismissed as "woke".
  - seydor 4y ago
    She literally says it was a political act for her, but the most problematic is this: > I have asked Egyptians to see themselves as Africans, and they are furious at me for that if you try to lump all the cultures of africa in a single word 'black' that is synonym 'african-american' then yes it s very woke and insulting to egyptians (who are more culturally arab than sub-saharan). Asking egyptians to see themselves as african-american is profoundly american myopia, but netflix doesn't even see that.
- foldr 4y ago
  >So, was Cleopatra Black? We don’t know for sure, but we can be certain she wasn’t white like Elizabeth Taylor. Seems like a fair point. I'd take this outrage more seriously if the same people were also protesting about the innumerable portrayals of Cleopatra by white actresses.
  - seydor 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - foldr 4y ago
      >but over the trailer of the documentary (i added the link) which literally says she was a black woman. Err, no, it doesn't literally say that. There is: 1) A man with light brown skin saying that he imagines Cleopatra as having the same skin tone as him and curly hair, which is entirely plausible (though far from certain) given what is known about her ancestry. 2) A woman saying that her grandma told her that Cleopatra was black. It's nothing more than a nod to the longstanding controversy over Cleopatra's race and appearance, which far predates anything usually covered by the meaningless term of abuse 'woke'. Part of the problem here is that 'black' as a racial category didn't really exist in Egypt in the 1st century BC, so it's a bit of a silly debate anyway.
      - seydor 4y ago
        [flagged]
        foldr 4y ago
        It briefly shows one person saying that their grandma said it. There's no suggestion that any particular claim about Cleopatra's appearance is endorsed by the documentary as definitely true. In general, as I'm sure you're aware, it's misleading to say that a documentary "says X" if X isn't a claim that the documentary itself is endorsing. > they could at least show a bust of her Are you sure that they don't? This is just the trailer. Perhaps they could use this racially ambiguous 1862 depiction of Cleopatra by William Wetmore Story: https://smarthistory.org/seeing-america-2/william-wetmore-story-cleopatra/ https://smarthistory.org/seeing-america-2/william-wetmore-st... (The 1860s were, of course, a notoriously 'woke' period of American history.)