3 ms·

>Epic is also a great company No, it's not. It does the exact same shit that Activision does except it targets an even younger more vulnerable demographic. Did

by pb7 4y ago

>Epic is also a great company No, it's not. It does the exact same shit that Activision does except it targets an even younger more vulnerable demographic. Did you forget about this? https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2022/12/245-million-ftc-settlement-alleges-fortnite-owner-epic-games-used-digital-dark-patterns-charge https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2022/12/245-milli...

waboremo 4y ago
I wonder when the FTC is going to crack down on mobile gaming for this reason. Google and Apple profit tremendously from various companies targeting vulnerable demographics in their games.
- hnfong 3y ago
  Well, it's only a stupid authoritarian act when China does it...
015a 4y ago
I don't agree with the FTC's conclusion on that case, and while it doesn't reflect positively on Epic, its not nearly as negative as the myriad of things other gaming companies do on the regular (lootboxes being a big one, which are still very common in Activision, EA, & Valve games, among others). Epic is one of the good ones; that doesn't mean they always do good things.
- panopticon 4y ago
  > Epic is one of the good ones Maybe if your only comparison is Activision and EA. When you consider all the dark patterns Fortnite employs to encourage logging playtime and making purchases, they're only separated from those others by degrees. Stacked up against developers that largely avoid those patterns (FromSoft, Nintendo, CDPR, etc), Epic is most certainly closer to the "bad" side of the spectrum.
  - pb7 4y ago
    Yeah, I have no idea how GP thinks Epic is the gold standard. There are way better developers with extremely successful games that don't have this bullshit: Naughty Dog (Last of Us, Uncharted), FromSoft (mentioned, Elden Ring), Portkey Games (Hogwarts Legacy), Guerrilla Games (Horizon), Insomniac (Spider-Man), Santa Monica Studios (God of War), Sucker Punch (Ghost of Tsushima), Rockstar (Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto[0]) and many others. Epic is near the bottom of the list, not the top. [0] The online has micro-transactions but even if it didn't exist, the single player experience is well worth the money alone and is on par with all the others.
    - throwaway7679 4y ago
      Listing Microsoft and Epic as good guys is wack. "Disagreeing" that Epic's practices are clear-cut intentional abuse had me searching for a punchline.
    - 015a 4y ago
      > I have no idea how GP thinks Epic is the gold standard. Where, exactly, did you read "gold standard"? No one said that. No one hinted to that. The words stated were "great company" and "one of the good ones".
      - pb7 4y ago
        Epic is neither of those so it doesn't matter. >Epic is also a great company, but beyond those two when it comes to major developers/publishers there's far more bad than good I listed all major developers, many of which are owned by mega publishers like Sony.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      Hogwarts Legacy certainly looks good, but the mobile game hogwarts mystery(or something like that) by the same studio was full of dark patterns and also devoid of actual gameplay.
  - 015a 4y ago
    But you just listed companies that aren't even comparable; they're at entirely different market capitalizations. FromSoft and CDPR are babies compared to Xbox, Sony, Nintendo, Activision, EA, and Epic. FromSoft has a rough valuation (its hard, because they're owned by Kadokawa) of maybe the low nine figures. CDPR is larger, in the low billions. Epic is like $40 billion. Activision, clearly, around $85B. EA, around $35B. And Microsoft/Sony, obviously, a lot, lot more. Team Cherry and concernedape are also extremely amazing and ethical developers. But they aren't peers to the companies we're talking about. Its easy to be ethical when you're small. Its laudable to maintain a sense of those ethics when you're large, even if the absolute measure isn't a perfect score. Nintendo is far scummier than you let on; they're among the scummiest video game companies on the planet. It just doesn't come through in their fantastic and "pure" gaming experiences; but the fights their legal team chooses to engage in are ugly, despicable, and very unique among gaming companies.

by pb7 4y ago

waboremo 4y ago

I wonder when the FTC is going to crack down on mobile gaming for this reason. Google and Apple profit tremendously from various companies targeting vulnerable demographics in their games.

hnfong 3y ago
Well, it's only a stupid authoritarian act when China does it...

015a 4y ago

I don't agree with the FTC's conclusion on that case, and while it doesn't reflect positively on Epic, its not nearly as negative as the myriad of things other gaming companies do on the regular (lootboxes being a big one, which are still very common in Activision, EA, & Valve games, among others). Epic is one of the good ones; that doesn't mean they always do good things.

panopticon 4y ago
> Epic is one of the good ones Maybe if your only comparison is Activision and EA. When you consider all the dark patterns Fortnite employs to encourage logging playtime and making purchases, they're only separated from those others by degrees. Stacked up against developers that largely avoid those patterns (FromSoft, Nintendo, CDPR, etc), Epic is most certainly closer to the "bad" side of the spectrum.
- pb7 4y ago
  Yeah, I have no idea how GP thinks Epic is the gold standard. There are way better developers with extremely successful games that don't have this bullshit: Naughty Dog (Last of Us, Uncharted), FromSoft (mentioned, Elden Ring), Portkey Games (Hogwarts Legacy), Guerrilla Games (Horizon), Insomniac (Spider-Man), Santa Monica Studios (God of War), Sucker Punch (Ghost of Tsushima), Rockstar (Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto[0]) and many others. Epic is near the bottom of the list, not the top. [0] The online has micro-transactions but even if it didn't exist, the single player experience is well worth the money alone and is on par with all the others.
  - throwaway7679 4y ago
    Listing Microsoft and Epic as good guys is wack. "Disagreeing" that Epic's practices are clear-cut intentional abuse had me searching for a punchline.
  - 015a 4y ago
    > I have no idea how GP thinks Epic is the gold standard. Where, exactly, did you read "gold standard"? No one said that. No one hinted to that. The words stated were "great company" and "one of the good ones".
    - pb7 4y ago
      Epic is neither of those so it doesn't matter. >Epic is also a great company, but beyond those two when it comes to major developers/publishers there's far more bad than good I listed all major developers, many of which are owned by mega publishers like Sony.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Hogwarts Legacy certainly looks good, but the mobile game hogwarts mystery(or something like that) by the same studio was full of dark patterns and also devoid of actual gameplay.
- 015a 4y ago
  But you just listed companies that aren't even comparable; they're at entirely different market capitalizations. FromSoft and CDPR are babies compared to Xbox, Sony, Nintendo, Activision, EA, and Epic. FromSoft has a rough valuation (its hard, because they're owned by Kadokawa) of maybe the low nine figures. CDPR is larger, in the low billions. Epic is like $40 billion. Activision, clearly, around $85B. EA, around $35B. And Microsoft/Sony, obviously, a lot, lot more. Team Cherry and concernedape are also extremely amazing and ethical developers. But they aren't peers to the companies we're talking about. Its easy to be ethical when you're small. Its laudable to maintain a sense of those ethics when you're large, even if the absolute measure isn't a perfect score. Nintendo is far scummier than you let on; they're among the scummiest video game companies on the planet. It just doesn't come through in their fantastic and "pure" gaming experiences; but the fights their legal team chooses to engage in are ugly, despicable, and very unique among gaming companies.