4 ms·

In the USA there was a circuit split on this in 2020 at least [1]. In the European union this form of copying is explicitly excepted in general under Directive

In the USA there was a circuit split on this in 2020 at least [1]. In the European union this form of copying is explicitly excepted in general under Directive 2001/29/EC Article 5(1) see [2]. Specifically in Germany (where LAION is established) it is permitted under Section 44a of the UrhG [3] . One could also argue based on Section 44b of same. [1] https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/53/5/notes/files/53-5_Gillotte.pdf https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/53/5/notes/files/53... with thanks to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35713309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35713309 [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32001L0029:en:HTML https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX... [3] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_urhg.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_ur...

polotics 4y ago
I am sorry but I have a very different reading of the mentioned EC Directive: """Article 5 Exceptions and limitations 1. Temporary acts of reproduction referred to in Article 2, which are transient or incidental [and] an integral and essential part of a technological process and whose sole purpose is to enable: (a) a transmission in a network between third parties by an intermediary, or (b) a lawful use of a work or other subject-matter to be made, and which have no independent economic significance, shall be exempted from the reproduction right provided for in Article 2. """ As upload to a GAN is not transmission, and the economic significance is pretty clear. Then the German 44a is an exact copy of the EC directive, so this also applies I think.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  I haven't heard the phrasing "Upload to a GAN" before. It also doesn't seem to be defined in the sources at hand. Can you provide a source and/or definition?
  - polotics 4y ago
    This is original research. As the word "train" refers to applying the uniquely human capability of acquiring information, the word "upload" seems the most appropriate term fallback to use when referring to putting information into some AI system. You're welcome! Reference: open any dictionary and look up the word "train". Choo choo!
    - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
      Note that "training" is a pretty common established term-of-art used in AI and ML for particular kinds of operations. Re-using the term "upload" on the spot would be misleading. "Upload" -in my mind- is typically a network operation (and in the opposite direction at that) , which is not what is happening here. I would prefer to stick to terminology used in the sources and literature, if possible (as opposed to inventing a new nomenclature on the spot). A very brief summary/introduction of the operations involved can be found in section I. A. of [1]. (a source I referred to previously) [1] https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/53/5/notes/files/53-5_Gillotte.pdf https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/53/5/notes/files/53...
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      >As the word "train" refers to applying the uniquely human capability of acquiring information, Dogs are trained to do certain things, are dogs humans?
      - polotics 4y ago
        Sorry, the dictionary definition for the verb "train" is that indeed it applies to humans, and animals. (and nothing else)

polotics 4y ago

I am sorry but I have a very different reading of the mentioned EC Directive: """Article 5 Exceptions and limitations 1. Temporary acts of reproduction referred to in Article 2, which are transient or incidental [and] an integral and essential part of a technological process and whose sole purpose is to enable: (a) a transmission in a network between third parties by an intermediary, or (b) a lawful use of a work or other subject-matter to be made, and which have no independent economic significance, shall be exempted from the reproduction right provided for in Article 2. """ As upload to a GAN is not transmission, and the economic significance is pretty clear. Then the German 44a is an exact copy of the EC directive, so this also applies I think.

Kim_Bruning 4y ago
I haven't heard the phrasing "Upload to a GAN" before. It also doesn't seem to be defined in the sources at hand. Can you provide a source and/or definition?
- polotics 4y ago
  This is original research. As the word "train" refers to applying the uniquely human capability of acquiring information, the word "upload" seems the most appropriate term fallback to use when referring to putting information into some AI system. You're welcome! Reference: open any dictionary and look up the word "train". Choo choo!
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    Note that "training" is a pretty common established term-of-art used in AI and ML for particular kinds of operations. Re-using the term "upload" on the spot would be misleading. "Upload" -in my mind- is typically a network operation (and in the opposite direction at that) , which is not what is happening here. I would prefer to stick to terminology used in the sources and literature, if possible (as opposed to inventing a new nomenclature on the spot). A very brief summary/introduction of the operations involved can be found in section I. A. of [1]. (a source I referred to previously) [1] https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/53/5/notes/files/53-5_Gillotte.pdf https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/53/5/notes/files/53...
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >As the word "train" refers to applying the uniquely human capability of acquiring information, Dogs are trained to do certain things, are dogs humans?
    - polotics 4y ago
      Sorry, the dictionary definition for the verb "train" is that indeed it applies to humans, and animals. (and nothing else)