3 ms·

Ironically there’s probably more authenticity and realism in the western shows than the fantasy worlds of most kdramas and animes.

sho_hn 3y ago
I think what OP means to some extent is that the Korean media, while often showing "fantasy worlds", also rarely injects this with a pretense of authenticity as Western media nearly constantly does. It's easier to articulate in pop music, where a large chunk of popular pop songs is written, composed and demo-tape'd/vocal-guide'd by the same dozen or so of Scandinavan service companies, for both Western and Korean pop artists equally. But while the Western pop stars may act as if they're the auteurs of "their music" rather than being entertainers who were given a piece of music to sing as part of a carefully crafted product vision, in Korea, this is relatively above-board and neither talent nor consumers pretend otherwise. Don't get me wrong, the Korean pop music industry is terrible in many other ways (as is the pop industry in general), but there's something to be said for content not trying to fool you about what it is.
- prottog 3y ago
  > also rarely injects this with a pretense of authenticity as Western media nearly constantly does In other words, a show is just a show, instead of the way it is in modern Western media, which is being an instrument of social change first and only incidentally a show. The latter is exhausting.
  - hourago 3y ago
    > instead of the way it is in modern Western media, which is being an instrument of social change first All art is a form of personal expression and it is full of new views and political change. I think that the difference is that in the West reactionary criticism permeates all social media. If a Japanese show tells the story of a set of characters fighting the global goverment injustices its viewers enjoy the show. If an American show tries to do the same a very small part of the population but very noisy will criticize it as "communist" and "politicized" instead of enjoying the real feelings of love and justice that humans enjoy in their stories.
    - jimmyjazz14 3y ago
      yeah I think there is absolutely a way to do a good show and have a social/political message and it usually comes down to tone and respecting the audience. Studio Ghibli is known for there positive and even relaxing tone but underneath the story is often a social/political message. That message is often subtle and weaved into the fibers of the story, its a message you feel not hear, if that makes sense. I think they achieve this because they respect their audience enough to give them something they will enjoy and to be smart enough to pick up on the subtle message in the content.
    - imbnwa 3y ago
      Like how Vinland Saga is literally a critique of "might makes right" patriarchal culture and its viscissitudes.
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    Korean shows are definitely also an instrument for change. K-culture is a deliberate strategy from the SK government to increase its soft power. SK is resource poor, brain rich, and caught in between bigger players. It needs all the good will it can foster. In addition, the themes explored by K-dramas are often also meant to shape the narrative in Korea, or give visibility to problems. It's not uncommon for a social problem to be highlighted by a drama, and then for public outcry to cause the government to change laws or policies in response. But because SK society is quite conservative and patriarchal, it might not seem to you like social change or controversial.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      I’d agree, however it feels less preachy for whatever reason, which helps the “medicine” go down. Often I point to “Brokeback Mountain” as an example of progressive Western media made by grownups.
- bossyTeacher 3y ago
  > in pop music, where a large chunk of popular pop songs is written, composed and demo-tape'd/vocal-guide'd by the same dozen or so of Scandinavan service companies, any links to back this up?
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    DDG is your friend. Also look up 90s R&B producers lending expertise when they take that angle.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    Look up e.g. Karl Martin Sandberg, Shellback, Cheiron Studios, Dsign Music, The Kennel, EKKO, Cosmos, Merlin, ... the composers themselves are often contractors working with many of these, and in turn it gets sold to big labels often via e.g. Warner or Universal. Sweden, Norway and Denmark are the pop songwriting hotbed, and pop music is a very systemized industry. It also happens every year that the same pop song is licensed multiple times into different markets where it's given localized lyrics and sung by locally popular pop artists. I'm too scatter-brained to immediately think of a recent example, but check out e.g. "Hot Summer" existing in German and Korean girl band versions.
jimmyjazz14 3y ago
When you were a kid and coming up with fun creative stories or just playing creatively did you inject a level of authenticity and realism to that play? Probably not because you were just being your authentic self, unedited and unspoiled, having fun. I think this is a little bit of the feel I get from a lot of korean/japanese media.
abtinf 3y ago
Why is it desirable for art to have "authenticity and realism"? Nowadays, those terms are just code for the malevolent and disturbed world view of some creators. I prefer art that depicts life as it could and ought to be.

sho_hn 3y ago

I think what OP means to some extent is that the Korean media, while often showing "fantasy worlds", also rarely injects this with a pretense of authenticity as Western media nearly constantly does. It's easier to articulate in pop music, where a large chunk of popular pop songs is written, composed and demo-tape'd/vocal-guide'd by the same dozen or so of Scandinavan service companies, for both Western and Korean pop artists equally. But while the Western pop stars may act as if they're the auteurs of "their music" rather than being entertainers who were given a piece of music to sing as part of a carefully crafted product vision, in Korea, this is relatively above-board and neither talent nor consumers pretend otherwise. Don't get me wrong, the Korean pop music industry is terrible in many other ways (as is the pop industry in general), but there's something to be said for content not trying to fool you about what it is.

prottog 3y ago
> also rarely injects this with a pretense of authenticity as Western media nearly constantly does In other words, a show is just a show, instead of the way it is in modern Western media, which is being an instrument of social change first and only incidentally a show. The latter is exhausting.
- hourago 3y ago
  > instead of the way it is in modern Western media, which is being an instrument of social change first All art is a form of personal expression and it is full of new views and political change. I think that the difference is that in the West reactionary criticism permeates all social media. If a Japanese show tells the story of a set of characters fighting the global goverment injustices its viewers enjoy the show. If an American show tries to do the same a very small part of the population but very noisy will criticize it as "communist" and "politicized" instead of enjoying the real feelings of love and justice that humans enjoy in their stories.
  - jimmyjazz14 3y ago
    yeah I think there is absolutely a way to do a good show and have a social/political message and it usually comes down to tone and respecting the audience. Studio Ghibli is known for there positive and even relaxing tone but underneath the story is often a social/political message. That message is often subtle and weaved into the fibers of the story, its a message you feel not hear, if that makes sense. I think they achieve this because they respect their audience enough to give them something they will enjoy and to be smart enough to pick up on the subtle message in the content.
  - imbnwa 3y ago
    Like how Vinland Saga is literally a critique of "might makes right" patriarchal culture and its viscissitudes.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  Korean shows are definitely also an instrument for change. K-culture is a deliberate strategy from the SK government to increase its soft power. SK is resource poor, brain rich, and caught in between bigger players. It needs all the good will it can foster. In addition, the themes explored by K-dramas are often also meant to shape the narrative in Korea, or give visibility to problems. It's not uncommon for a social problem to be highlighted by a drama, and then for public outcry to cause the government to change laws or policies in response. But because SK society is quite conservative and patriarchal, it might not seem to you like social change or controversial.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    I’d agree, however it feels less preachy for whatever reason, which helps the “medicine” go down. Often I point to “Brokeback Mountain” as an example of progressive Western media made by grownups.
bossyTeacher 3y ago
> in pop music, where a large chunk of popular pop songs is written, composed and demo-tape'd/vocal-guide'd by the same dozen or so of Scandinavan service companies, any links to back this up?
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  DDG is your friend. Also look up 90s R&B producers lending expertise when they take that angle.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  Look up e.g. Karl Martin Sandberg, Shellback, Cheiron Studios, Dsign Music, The Kennel, EKKO, Cosmos, Merlin, ... the composers themselves are often contractors working with many of these, and in turn it gets sold to big labels often via e.g. Warner or Universal. Sweden, Norway and Denmark are the pop songwriting hotbed, and pop music is a very systemized industry. It also happens every year that the same pop song is licensed multiple times into different markets where it's given localized lyrics and sung by locally popular pop artists. I'm too scatter-brained to immediately think of a recent example, but check out e.g. "Hot Summer" existing in German and Korean girl band versions.

jimmyjazz14 3y ago

When you were a kid and coming up with fun creative stories or just playing creatively did you inject a level of authenticity and realism to that play? Probably not because you were just being your authentic self, unedited and unspoiled, having fun. I think this is a little bit of the feel I get from a lot of korean/japanese media.

abtinf 3y ago

Why is it desirable for art to have "authenticity and realism"? Nowadays, those terms are just code for the malevolent and disturbed world view of some creators. I prefer art that depicts life as it could and ought to be.