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"After the diet change, we observed significant changes in measures of anxiety, well-being and happiness, and without changes in gut microbiome diversity. We fo

"After the diet change, we observed significant changes in measures of anxiety, well-being and happiness, and without changes in gut microbiome diversity. We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression, while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression." I think most of us would agree that makes sense? Eat like crap, feel like crap? "We also found strong negative correlations between total calories and total fiber intake with gut microbiome diversity without correlations to measures of mental health, mood or happiness.... inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity." I kept reading this second paragraph trying to understand the "without correlations" part. And also the negative correlations part. And then the full-text has this, which helped I think: "Furthermore, total calories and fiber had a negative correlation with gut microbiome diversity, and anxiety and depression decrease as the gut diversity increases."

hinkley 3y ago
Fiber reducing biodiversity would be news. I thought consensus was the other way around?
- MavropaliasG 3y ago
  That's the kind of garbage results you get when you run a study with only 20 participants. Also they changed to both mediterranean and ketogenic? Wtf
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  Yeah, I thought fiber is literally food for gut microbes. WTF?
- goda90 3y ago
  I wonder if it's a case of soluble vs insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber is often described as speeding up transit through the intestines, which might leave microbes less food to eat, or increase the microbes being driven out before they can establish.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    I had a similar thought. I had a laugh years ago when I realized that jam and jellies are full of soluble fiber and my entire childhood my parents were sneaking fiber into my diet. My whole childhood was a lie!
  - minsight 3y ago
    Microbes eat fiber. That's what a prebiotic is.
- BobbyJo 3y ago
  It was a 2 week study, and diet was only changed for a week. The time period was probably long enough for existing microbes to decline due to environmental changes, but not long enough for new microbes that favor the new conditions to move in. If you've ever dramatically changed your diet, you'll know a week is not long enough for the resulting GI upset to subside. It often takes a month or longer.
darthrupert 3y ago
The idea that fat and protein are good while carbs are "crap" is controversial.
- augment003 3y ago
  Is it? I haven’t seen any controversy around it, just a gradual shift to recommendations for more protein and fat vs less carbs.
  - darthrupert 3y ago
    I haven't heard of any such thing, except made by people who are selling something.
    - snapcaster 3y ago
      Did you talk to anyone who successfully lost weight and kept it off? I have, and from my own experience and talking to others who did the same _every_ single person succeeded via low card high protein/fat. Would be super interested in meeting someone who lost weight with a high carb diet and how they pulled it off. It's really hard for a lot of psychological and hunger based reasons which is why basically nobody can do it
      - ntonozzi 3y ago
        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-benefits-of-a-macrobiotic-diet-for-diabetes/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-benefits-o...
- smolder 3y ago
  That statement is much too reductive to be true. Yet it might still be closer to the truth than the old belief that it's best to avoid fats and eat loads of grains.
- southwesterly 3y ago
  I mean… it’s all crap in the end, right? Aren’t we just supposed to have a healthy mix of fats, proteins, carbs and fibre in a sensible portion size related to how much energy you usually expend over a given period?
runlaszlorun 3y ago
> I think most of us would agree that makes sense? Eat like crap, feel like crap? I’m just an average joe trying to figure out how to improve a diet, but I haven’t found much of a consensus regarding fats vs proteins vs carbohydrates.
- stronglikedan 3y ago
  I improved mine significantly by just cutting out processed foods. Almost everything I eat is made from whole ingredients, and no artificial or "diet" anything. I'm in much better shape, both mentally and physically, because of it. It also helps with portion control, since I'm getting the maximum amount of nutrients from my food, so I don't "feel hungry later".
  - feoren 3y ago
    > processed foods > whole ingredients These are utterly meaningless terms. You "process" food by cutting and cooking it. Everything is processed. Everything is GMO -- have you seen what corn looked like before humans bred it? Everything is organic. Everything is "whole". Nutrition is too complicated and too individualized for these nonsense labels. > I'm getting the maximum amount of nutrients from my food This is utter nonsense. Some processing steps remove some nutrients from some foods. Other processing steps add nutrients that you need. Plenty of foods have nutrients that are completely unavailable for your body until you cook it (many veggies) -- PROCESSING! Other nutrients are destroyed by too much cooking (Vitamin C, I believe). You better be glad the salt you eat is "processed" by adding iodine to it. The water you drink is "processed" by adding fluoride to it. Those last 2 are some of the biggest public health successes in human history. I'm glad you're feeling better, but it's 100% from paying attention to what you're eating, and 0% from this bullshit about "whole" or "unprocessed" foods with "maximum nutrients". Stop spreading this bullshit.
    - soneca 3y ago
      > ” You "process" food by cutting and cooking it. Everything is processed” No one means that cutting a carrot make it into “processed food”. You are changing a mostly commonly understood definition to a new wanna-be-technically-correct one you just made up only to suit your argument. There is a grey area in the definition of processed foods, but it’s not close as large as your definition maintains.
mfer 3y ago
I wish it detailed the types of carbs. Carbs from whole grains and things like fruit are different from processed carbs where the supporting parts of the food are removed. That's why Keto bread will look at fiber compared to total carbs. It depends on the form of carb. I wish the overview touched on the different types of carbs and their impact. Not all carbs are alike.
- DrThunder 3y ago
  Better, but still carbs. It's just harder to eat a lot of those. I would challenge "whole grains" actually being any better at all. Honestly, I think the whole fiber intake stuff is bs. Anecdotally, I feel much better on a low fiber high protein diet than anything else. So does the rest of my family. My opinion on carbs is that you should only eat them when you're going to burn them quickly. That's what they're for, to give you a big energy boost. They're not for consuming and then sitting on your ass.
  - mfer 3y ago
    Low fiber can leave you feeling good in the short term but it has long term health implications, I've read. The book Fiber Fueled [1] talks about what happens with fiber in our gut and the impact on our bodies at a high level. The author (an MD GI doctor) provides the scientific background for his claims for those that want it. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Fueled-Plant-Based-Optimizing-Microbiome/dp/059308456X https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Fueled-Plant-Based-Optimizing-M...
    - DrThunder 3y ago
      Could be, but for me it's not worth the discomfort.
ldehaan 3y ago
[dead]
shafyy 3y ago
I don't know man, I feel pretty great when eating fries :)
- sschueller 3y ago
  I think there is a diminish of return on such foods. Fries are now pimped with bacon, cheese and all kinds of stuff. Sweet itmes are so over sweatened that if you eat a strawberry afterwards it tastes bland. If we reduced the sweatiness of items we could enjoy them just as much as our senses adapt quite quickly. If I stop sugar for just 2 days and then eat something somewhat sweet it tastes very sweat. It's a big issue with the food industry trying to outsweet each other because people are so used to the taste of sugar. Artificial sweeteners are also to blame for setting a hight expectation of sweetness in products.
- swalling 3y ago
  Potatoes produce the highest level of satiety compared to other carbs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/ Combined with fats via frying or baking, and it's not a joke that they would make you feel the most full compared to a similar amount of rice or refined wheat bread/pasta. A slightly healthier but equally delicious replacement for fries are oven-roasted or grilled duck fat potatoes with the skin on.
  - shafyy 3y ago
    Fucking love oven roasted fat potatoes with the skin on. I never make fries at home, exactly for the health reasons (also I don't have a fryer). But still, sometimes fries and a beer are a great combo, especially if you get excellent fries.
agumonkey 3y ago
> Eat like crap, feel like crap? feel like crap, eat like crap starting the cycle
NegativeK 3y ago
> Eat like crap, feel like crap? The feelings I associate with eating like crap are brief malaise in the form of a tummy ache. The article is talking about more significant changes, such as overall happiness versus depression. Anecdote time: I've recently discovered that a food intolerance makes me surprisingly grumpy for at least a couple of days. I'll find myself (fortunately in my internal monologue) arguing with people over trivial stuff. Completely avoiding the ingredient, however, pretty much nukes that behavior.
- Sylarr 3y ago
  What ingredient?
asdfman123 3y ago
> Eat like crap, feel like crap But I’d like to know finer distinctions. Are low gi carbs okay? What about after workout? Is fiber necessary, for those on a low FODMAP diet? Etc.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
In Italy people would tell you "pasta gives me good mood", so from a subjective point of view, no. Fruit is carbs (except for avocado?) and it's definitely carbs, still very good for your body.

hinkley 3y ago

Fiber reducing biodiversity would be news. I thought consensus was the other way around?

MavropaliasG 3y ago
That's the kind of garbage results you get when you run a study with only 20 participants. Also they changed to both mediterranean and ketogenic? Wtf
TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
Yeah, I thought fiber is literally food for gut microbes. WTF?
goda90 3y ago
I wonder if it's a case of soluble vs insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber is often described as speeding up transit through the intestines, which might leave microbes less food to eat, or increase the microbes being driven out before they can establish.
- hinkley 3y ago
  I had a similar thought. I had a laugh years ago when I realized that jam and jellies are full of soluble fiber and my entire childhood my parents were sneaking fiber into my diet. My whole childhood was a lie!
- minsight 3y ago
  Microbes eat fiber. That's what a prebiotic is.
BobbyJo 3y ago
It was a 2 week study, and diet was only changed for a week. The time period was probably long enough for existing microbes to decline due to environmental changes, but not long enough for new microbes that favor the new conditions to move in. If you've ever dramatically changed your diet, you'll know a week is not long enough for the resulting GI upset to subside. It often takes a month or longer.

darthrupert 3y ago

The idea that fat and protein are good while carbs are "crap" is controversial.

augment003 3y ago
Is it? I haven’t seen any controversy around it, just a gradual shift to recommendations for more protein and fat vs less carbs.
- darthrupert 3y ago
  I haven't heard of any such thing, except made by people who are selling something.
  - snapcaster 3y ago
    Did you talk to anyone who successfully lost weight and kept it off? I have, and from my own experience and talking to others who did the same _every_ single person succeeded via low card high protein/fat. Would be super interested in meeting someone who lost weight with a high carb diet and how they pulled it off. It's really hard for a lot of psychological and hunger based reasons which is why basically nobody can do it
    - ntonozzi 3y ago
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-benefits-of-a-macrobiotic-diet-for-diabetes/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-benefits-o...
smolder 3y ago
That statement is much too reductive to be true. Yet it might still be closer to the truth than the old belief that it's best to avoid fats and eat loads of grains.
southwesterly 3y ago
I mean… it’s all crap in the end, right? Aren’t we just supposed to have a healthy mix of fats, proteins, carbs and fibre in a sensible portion size related to how much energy you usually expend over a given period?

runlaszlorun 3y ago

> I think most of us would agree that makes sense? Eat like crap, feel like crap? I’m just an average joe trying to figure out how to improve a diet, but I haven’t found much of a consensus regarding fats vs proteins vs carbohydrates.

stronglikedan 3y ago
I improved mine significantly by just cutting out processed foods. Almost everything I eat is made from whole ingredients, and no artificial or "diet" anything. I'm in much better shape, both mentally and physically, because of it. It also helps with portion control, since I'm getting the maximum amount of nutrients from my food, so I don't "feel hungry later".
- feoren 3y ago
  > processed foods > whole ingredients These are utterly meaningless terms. You "process" food by cutting and cooking it. Everything is processed. Everything is GMO -- have you seen what corn looked like before humans bred it? Everything is organic. Everything is "whole". Nutrition is too complicated and too individualized for these nonsense labels. > I'm getting the maximum amount of nutrients from my food This is utter nonsense. Some processing steps remove some nutrients from some foods. Other processing steps add nutrients that you need. Plenty of foods have nutrients that are completely unavailable for your body until you cook it (many veggies) -- PROCESSING! Other nutrients are destroyed by too much cooking (Vitamin C, I believe). You better be glad the salt you eat is "processed" by adding iodine to it. The water you drink is "processed" by adding fluoride to it. Those last 2 are some of the biggest public health successes in human history. I'm glad you're feeling better, but it's 100% from paying attention to what you're eating, and 0% from this bullshit about "whole" or "unprocessed" foods with "maximum nutrients". Stop spreading this bullshit.
  - soneca 3y ago
    > ” You "process" food by cutting and cooking it. Everything is processed” No one means that cutting a carrot make it into “processed food”. You are changing a mostly commonly understood definition to a new wanna-be-technically-correct one you just made up only to suit your argument. There is a grey area in the definition of processed foods, but it’s not close as large as your definition maintains.

mfer 3y ago

I wish it detailed the types of carbs. Carbs from whole grains and things like fruit are different from processed carbs where the supporting parts of the food are removed. That's why Keto bread will look at fiber compared to total carbs. It depends on the form of carb. I wish the overview touched on the different types of carbs and their impact. Not all carbs are alike.

DrThunder 3y ago
Better, but still carbs. It's just harder to eat a lot of those. I would challenge "whole grains" actually being any better at all. Honestly, I think the whole fiber intake stuff is bs. Anecdotally, I feel much better on a low fiber high protein diet than anything else. So does the rest of my family. My opinion on carbs is that you should only eat them when you're going to burn them quickly. That's what they're for, to give you a big energy boost. They're not for consuming and then sitting on your ass.
- mfer 3y ago
  Low fiber can leave you feeling good in the short term but it has long term health implications, I've read. The book Fiber Fueled [1] talks about what happens with fiber in our gut and the impact on our bodies at a high level. The author (an MD GI doctor) provides the scientific background for his claims for those that want it. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Fueled-Plant-Based-Optimizing-Microbiome/dp/059308456X https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Fueled-Plant-Based-Optimizing-M...
  - DrThunder 3y ago
    Could be, but for me it's not worth the discomfort.

ldehaan 3y ago

[dead]

shafyy 3y ago

I don't know man, I feel pretty great when eating fries :)

sschueller 3y ago
I think there is a diminish of return on such foods. Fries are now pimped with bacon, cheese and all kinds of stuff. Sweet itmes are so over sweatened that if you eat a strawberry afterwards it tastes bland. If we reduced the sweatiness of items we could enjoy them just as much as our senses adapt quite quickly. If I stop sugar for just 2 days and then eat something somewhat sweet it tastes very sweat. It's a big issue with the food industry trying to outsweet each other because people are so used to the taste of sugar. Artificial sweeteners are also to blame for setting a hight expectation of sweetness in products.
swalling 3y ago
Potatoes produce the highest level of satiety compared to other carbs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/ Combined with fats via frying or baking, and it's not a joke that they would make you feel the most full compared to a similar amount of rice or refined wheat bread/pasta. A slightly healthier but equally delicious replacement for fries are oven-roasted or grilled duck fat potatoes with the skin on.
- shafyy 3y ago
  Fucking love oven roasted fat potatoes with the skin on. I never make fries at home, exactly for the health reasons (also I don't have a fryer). But still, sometimes fries and a beer are a great combo, especially if you get excellent fries.

agumonkey 3y ago

> Eat like crap, feel like crap? feel like crap, eat like crap starting the cycle

NegativeK 3y ago

> Eat like crap, feel like crap? The feelings I associate with eating like crap are brief malaise in the form of a tummy ache. The article is talking about more significant changes, such as overall happiness versus depression. Anecdote time: I've recently discovered that a food intolerance makes me surprisingly grumpy for at least a couple of days. I'll find myself (fortunately in my internal monologue) arguing with people over trivial stuff. Completely avoiding the ingredient, however, pretty much nukes that behavior.

Sylarr 3y ago
What ingredient?

asdfman123 3y ago

> Eat like crap, feel like crap But I’d like to know finer distinctions. Are low gi carbs okay? What about after workout? Is fiber necessary, for those on a low FODMAP diet? Etc.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago

In Italy people would tell you "pasta gives me good mood", so from a subjective point of view, no. Fruit is carbs (except for avocado?) and it's definitely carbs, still very good for your body.