5 ms·

One of the reasons we need faster upload speeds, so people can host from home.

by transfire 3y ago

duxup 3y ago
This seems pretty wild to me that for say a social network I need fast upload speeds.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- turnsout 3y ago
  Once you implement a basic ActivityPub server, you realize you're basically asking for a friendly DDoS. If you toot a photo to 1000 followers, your server needs to blast it out to every unique instance in that list of 1000, then ask for whatever updates they have. It's not "efficient," but the upside is that it's conceptually very simple.
  - zimpenfish 3y ago
    > If you toot a photo to 1000 followers, your server needs to blast it out to every unique instance in that list of 1000 I might be misunderstanding here but if you make a status with a photo, it doesn't attach the literal bytes of the photo but the URL to your local copy of the photo which may, admittedly, by fetched 1000 times by those instances if someone on each of those instances looks at it. cf https://octodon.social/@pzmyers/110265584018863694 https://octodon.social/@pzmyers/110265584018863694 which has the link //assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/265/581/155/000/717/original/0b24824d56920b79.jpeg and also a preview link of https://assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/265/581/155/000/717/original/0b24824d56920b79.jpeg https://assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/26....
    - turnsout 3y ago
      Unfortunately, what happens is that (for some reason), instances cache remote media. So if I'm on rando.zyx, it will download and cache the image from octodon.social for local rando.zyx users.
      - KomoD 3y ago
        It's not just images either, it's the same with link previews, so any link that gets posted will get visited by the instances your instance is federated with, it's even worse when you post a link to a video. Small example log: https://pastebin.com/raw/jYZ1z8dG https://pastebin.com/raw/jYZ1z8dG I've seen some cases where there's been 1000+ requests to a site just because a link to it was posted.
        zimpenfish 3y ago
        Now that is a problem. But people have suggested workable solutions and hopefully at some point, the Mastodon authors will pull their heads out of their hole and get on with implementing something. I wouldn't hold my breath, mind.
        KomoD 3y ago
        Earlier today I posted a link to a video on my webserver, all the instances hammered me so hard it maxed out my 1gbps connection
        zimpenfish 3y ago
        It's been an issue since 2017[1] (since moved to [2]) but the discussion always devolves into "but what if someone LIES in the federated preview??!!?!" bikeshedding. [1] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/4486 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/4486 [2] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/23662 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/23662
      - zimpenfish 3y ago
        Which is a very different situation to "blast out the photo to 1000 instances". But even then, not all of them fetch and cache media on receipt of a status (e.g. mine don't) and they're not fetching them at the same time according to my logs. You may well still end up serving 1000 copies of the photo (or even more if people aren't caching) but it's 100% not "blast out the photo to 1000 instances when you post" - it's much gentler.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    It is a funny that from our point of view, sending out to the internet has one flat cost. Most of my friends (people who would be interested in my photos) live in the same state as me. A bunch live in the same or adjacent towns…
afavour 3y ago
Home upload speeds aren’t holding that back. Hardware is. What is the average social media user going to host their Mastodon instance on? I wish it were possible to run mini-servers on something like an Apple TV, goodness knows there’s enough CPU going spare there most of the time. Or that ISPs shipped routers capable of it. But alas most people don’t have sufficiently open hardware just sitting around at home.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  My upload speeds, that I pay 120/mo for, are under 300kb. Boradband in america is largely a joke. I have only one provider in my area under 200/mo.
- zimpenfish 3y ago
  > What is the average social media user going to host their Mastodon instance on? A Raspberry Pi? https://github.com/guysoft/PleromaPi https://github.com/guysoft/PleromaPi (Sadly no AkkomaPi yet, it seems.)
  - afavour 3y ago
    I love the idea of it. The average user is never going to do it. > Unzip the image and install it to an SD card OK, you'll lose some people here but a lot could handle that > Configure your WiFi by editing pleromapi-wpa-supplicant.txt Aaand they're gone
- kornhole 3y ago
  Run Yunohost on any SBC or old laptop you have laying around. That is what I do.
zirgs 3y ago
Many ISPs forbid web hosting from home.
JustSomeNobody 3y ago
CGNAT needs to die as well.
- mvanbaak 3y ago
  THIS!
poulpy123 3y ago
except that nobody wants to host its own server, just a minority of minority of geeks

One of the reasons we need faster upload speeds, so people can host from home.

duxup 3y ago

This seems pretty wild to me that for say a social network I need fast upload speeds.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
turnsout 3y ago
Once you implement a basic ActivityPub server, you realize you're basically asking for a friendly DDoS. If you toot a photo to 1000 followers, your server needs to blast it out to every unique instance in that list of 1000, then ask for whatever updates they have. It's not "efficient," but the upside is that it's conceptually very simple.
- zimpenfish 3y ago
  > If you toot a photo to 1000 followers, your server needs to blast it out to every unique instance in that list of 1000 I might be misunderstanding here but if you make a status with a photo, it doesn't attach the literal bytes of the photo but the URL to your local copy of the photo which may, admittedly, by fetched 1000 times by those instances if someone on each of those instances looks at it. cf https://octodon.social/@pzmyers/110265584018863694 https://octodon.social/@pzmyers/110265584018863694 which has the link //assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/265/581/155/000/717/original/0b24824d56920b79.jpeg and also a preview link of https://assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/265/581/155/000/717/original/0b24824d56920b79.jpeg https://assets.octodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/26....
  - turnsout 3y ago
    Unfortunately, what happens is that (for some reason), instances cache remote media. So if I'm on rando.zyx, it will download and cache the image from octodon.social for local rando.zyx users.
    - KomoD 3y ago
      It's not just images either, it's the same with link previews, so any link that gets posted will get visited by the instances your instance is federated with, it's even worse when you post a link to a video. Small example log: https://pastebin.com/raw/jYZ1z8dG https://pastebin.com/raw/jYZ1z8dG I've seen some cases where there's been 1000+ requests to a site just because a link to it was posted.
      - zimpenfish 3y ago
        Now that is a problem. But people have suggested workable solutions and hopefully at some point, the Mastodon authors will pull their heads out of their hole and get on with implementing something. I wouldn't hold my breath, mind.
        KomoD 3y ago
        Earlier today I posted a link to a video on my webserver, all the instances hammered me so hard it maxed out my 1gbps connection
        zimpenfish 3y ago
        It's been an issue since 2017[1] (since moved to [2]) but the discussion always devolves into "but what if someone LIES in the federated preview??!!?!" bikeshedding. [1] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/4486 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/4486 [2] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/23662 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/23662
    - zimpenfish 3y ago
      Which is a very different situation to "blast out the photo to 1000 instances". But even then, not all of them fetch and cache media on receipt of a status (e.g. mine don't) and they're not fetching them at the same time according to my logs. You may well still end up serving 1000 copies of the photo (or even more if people aren't caching) but it's 100% not "blast out the photo to 1000 instances when you post" - it's much gentler.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  It is a funny that from our point of view, sending out to the internet has one flat cost. Most of my friends (people who would be interested in my photos) live in the same state as me. A bunch live in the same or adjacent towns…

afavour 3y ago

Home upload speeds aren’t holding that back. Hardware is. What is the average social media user going to host their Mastodon instance on? I wish it were possible to run mini-servers on something like an Apple TV, goodness knows there’s enough CPU going spare there most of the time. Or that ISPs shipped routers capable of it. But alas most people don’t have sufficiently open hardware just sitting around at home.

porkbeer 3y ago
My upload speeds, that I pay 120/mo for, are under 300kb. Boradband in america is largely a joke. I have only one provider in my area under 200/mo.
zimpenfish 3y ago
> What is the average social media user going to host their Mastodon instance on? A Raspberry Pi? https://github.com/guysoft/PleromaPi https://github.com/guysoft/PleromaPi (Sadly no AkkomaPi yet, it seems.)
- afavour 3y ago
  I love the idea of it. The average user is never going to do it. > Unzip the image and install it to an SD card OK, you'll lose some people here but a lot could handle that > Configure your WiFi by editing pleromapi-wpa-supplicant.txt Aaand they're gone
kornhole 3y ago
Run Yunohost on any SBC or old laptop you have laying around. That is what I do.

zirgs 3y ago

Many ISPs forbid web hosting from home.

JustSomeNobody 3y ago

CGNAT needs to die as well.

mvanbaak 3y ago
THIS!

poulpy123 3y ago

except that nobody wants to host its own server, just a minority of minority of geeks