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It seems like most people commenting here don't know what passkeys are. I'm seeing a lot of complaints about things that simply aren't a problem with Passkeys,

It seems like most people commenting here don't know what passkeys are. I'm seeing a lot of complaints about things that simply aren't a problem with Passkeys, only with plain WebAuthn. Passkeys are based on WebAuthn, but they are not the same from a user experience perspective. The simplest way to describe Passkeys would be "WebAuthn, but with the keys stored in a password manager instead of being tied to a specific device." Apple has a pretty good overview of how things look from a user's perspective: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/sign-in-with-passkeys-iphf538ea8d0/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/sign-in-with-passkeys... Note that while that while that article is about Apple's specific implementation, passkeys are an open standard with multiple independent implementations. The biggest issue with Passkeys right now (aside adoption by sites) is vendor lock in. Many implementations don't allow the key database to be exported or transferred to a different Passkey client. That's an issue with those implementations though, not an inherent problem with the protocol.

eep_social 4y ago
> Passkeys on iPhone require that you use iCloud Keychain. If you don’t have iCloud Keychain turned on when you try to save a passkey, you’ll be asked to turn it on. Passkeys also require that two-factor authentication is enabled for your Apple ID. Nope, sorry. Enshittification makes this entire concept, as-presented, a non-starter.
- philsnow 4y ago
  Which is the "shitty" part, 2FA on apple ID or iCloud Keychain? Both?
- Ajedi32 4y ago
  That's how credential management works on iOS. The built-in password manager works the same way. What exactly is your concern?
  - eep_social 4y ago
    Yeah and I don’t use that except where it’s unavoidable (wifi passwords) because apple cannot be trusted any more than any other public company.
    - Ajedi32 4y ago
      Use a different Passkey client then. This is like complaining that the "entire concept" of password managers is "a non-starter" because you don't like Lastpass.
      - eep_social 4y ago
        Indeed I do not like LastPass and I have taken my business elsewhere. But it’s not on me to sell myself a passkey solution, it’s on the snobby folks like you who are so sure it’s obviously better. And I’ll repeat my previous comment: you all are doing a piss poor job of explaining that to the rest of the world who aren’t going to get on board. Betamax was better, VHS won.
donmcronald 4y ago
> Many implementations don't allow the key database to be exported or transferred to a different Passkey client. That's an issue with those implementations though, not an inherent problem with the protocol. I don't get it. As soon as a key database can be exported, that means it can be stolen, doesn't it? How is Passkey so much better than a password manager with a good implementation that it warrants all the added complexity? BitWarden already uses my TPM to gate access to the password database.
- Ajedi32 4y ago
  > How is Passkey so much better than a password manager with a good implementation Because: 1. Passkeys have better UX, on account of them being able to interface with websites through a standard API rather than through text boxes. 2. Password managers are incapable of eliminating user-memorized passwords, again on account of them interfacing with sites through text boxes designed to facilitate that particular insecure practice.

eep_social 4y ago

> Passkeys on iPhone require that you use iCloud Keychain. If you don’t have iCloud Keychain turned on when you try to save a passkey, you’ll be asked to turn it on. Passkeys also require that two-factor authentication is enabled for your Apple ID. Nope, sorry. Enshittification makes this entire concept, as-presented, a non-starter.

philsnow 4y ago
Which is the "shitty" part, 2FA on apple ID or iCloud Keychain? Both?
Ajedi32 4y ago
That's how credential management works on iOS. The built-in password manager works the same way. What exactly is your concern?
- eep_social 4y ago
  Yeah and I don’t use that except where it’s unavoidable (wifi passwords) because apple cannot be trusted any more than any other public company.
  - Ajedi32 4y ago
    Use a different Passkey client then. This is like complaining that the "entire concept" of password managers is "a non-starter" because you don't like Lastpass.
    - eep_social 4y ago
      Indeed I do not like LastPass and I have taken my business elsewhere. But it’s not on me to sell myself a passkey solution, it’s on the snobby folks like you who are so sure it’s obviously better. And I’ll repeat my previous comment: you all are doing a piss poor job of explaining that to the rest of the world who aren’t going to get on board. Betamax was better, VHS won.

donmcronald 4y ago

> Many implementations don't allow the key database to be exported or transferred to a different Passkey client. That's an issue with those implementations though, not an inherent problem with the protocol. I don't get it. As soon as a key database can be exported, that means it can be stolen, doesn't it? How is Passkey so much better than a password manager with a good implementation that it warrants all the added complexity? BitWarden already uses my TPM to gate access to the password database.

Ajedi32 4y ago
> How is Passkey so much better than a password manager with a good implementation Because: 1. Passkeys have better UX, on account of them being able to interface with websites through a standard API rather than through text boxes. 2. Password managers are incapable of eliminating user-memorized passwords, again on account of them interfacing with sites through text boxes designed to facilitate that particular insecure practice.