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I have owned a model 3, and I loved it, and I agree with almost every negative take on the FSD scam.

steveBK123 3y ago
Same, had one for 4 years. Mostly a great car, advanced software, fast, good range, amazing charging network, etc. But the FSD stuff is borderline scam. EAP itself barely improved in my 4 years of ownership, and the sporadic phantom braking incidents could make it unusable on some software versions/roads/conditions/days/random.
- jackmott42 3y ago
  Yeah, can't use cruise control in a Tesla, because they insist on trying to vision only and not provide a normal option. So you can't use it because it stabs the brakes in random moments. To anyone about to reply that cruise control never phantom brakes for them, it will. Just keep using it.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Yup. The problem is similar to LLM hallucinations. It does not make predictable errors (slow response for older driver / aggressive driving by young male driver / etc). It's a lot of random error no healthy human would make. It's not even consistent on routes.. you might find it to be a huge relief to use on your commute and then one day it almost kills you on its 47th route on this road. It used to lose its mind on HOV lane mergers while driving in HOV lane like 1 out of 3 times. It used to hard brake for a Burger King roadside sign 20 feet in the air because perceptually its vision system read this as a stop sign. It used to slam the brakes and cut the speed 30mph because it suddenly thought it was on the local road under the highway I was driving. It used to phantom brake for highway overpass shadows in high midday sun. They slowly fixed that, but then introduced some imperceptible conditions that still triggered phantom braking in other lighting. It allegedly avoids objects, and would brake overly hard for someone merging in front multiple car lengths away. Meanwhile very close cut-ins would often get missed, and I had 3 particularly hair raising incidents over the life of the car in which I was cutoff at highway speed and the car just.. did nothing. I had to brake so hard the car lost all traction.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > To anyone about to reply that cruise control never phantom brakes for them, it will. Just keep using it. I have to think these people are just fans with deliberate blinders. It doesn't take much time at all to get a phantom braking incident. You can minimize by only using TACC in light traffic with a lead car, but there will still be moments it sees something that looks too much like a car coming at you and it'll stab the brakes. In my experience, it happens probably every 100-200 miles of freeway driving. I'm getting pretty good at predicting in advance what scene in front of the car is likely to freak out the car. And I drive with my foot resting on the accelerator ready to counteract the braking as quickly as possible. I'd really like the option to disable TACC and have a regular cruise control. We know the software supports that, because non-AP cars have it. Just make it available to all of us.
    - steveBK123 3y ago
      I was definitely seeing PB incidents closer to every 50-100mi, than 100-200mi.. but yes they are frequent enough in some road conditions its hard to believe people have never seen one. Further - I think it promotes bad tradeoffs that reduce safety. Like you, I sometimes ended up cruising with my foot over the accelerator to protect from being rear ended due to PB. This is exactly the opposite of driver instruction and what is logically safer. If we had to choose where to rest a foot in anticipation, the brake is the better place to be.

Same, had one for 4 years. Mostly a great car, advanced software, fast, good range, amazing charging network, etc. But the FSD stuff is borderline scam. EAP itself barely improved in my 4 years of ownership, and the sporadic phantom braking incidents could make it unusable on some software versions/roads/conditions/days/random.

jackmott42 3y ago
Yeah, can't use cruise control in a Tesla, because they insist on trying to vision only and not provide a normal option. So you can't use it because it stabs the brakes in random moments. To anyone about to reply that cruise control never phantom brakes for them, it will. Just keep using it.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Yup. The problem is similar to LLM hallucinations. It does not make predictable errors (slow response for older driver / aggressive driving by young male driver / etc). It's a lot of random error no healthy human would make. It's not even consistent on routes.. you might find it to be a huge relief to use on your commute and then one day it almost kills you on its 47th route on this road. It used to lose its mind on HOV lane mergers while driving in HOV lane like 1 out of 3 times. It used to hard brake for a Burger King roadside sign 20 feet in the air because perceptually its vision system read this as a stop sign. It used to slam the brakes and cut the speed 30mph because it suddenly thought it was on the local road under the highway I was driving. It used to phantom brake for highway overpass shadows in high midday sun. They slowly fixed that, but then introduced some imperceptible conditions that still triggered phantom braking in other lighting. It allegedly avoids objects, and would brake overly hard for someone merging in front multiple car lengths away. Meanwhile very close cut-ins would often get missed, and I had 3 particularly hair raising incidents over the life of the car in which I was cutoff at highway speed and the car just.. did nothing. I had to brake so hard the car lost all traction.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > To anyone about to reply that cruise control never phantom brakes for them, it will. Just keep using it. I have to think these people are just fans with deliberate blinders. It doesn't take much time at all to get a phantom braking incident. You can minimize by only using TACC in light traffic with a lead car, but there will still be moments it sees something that looks too much like a car coming at you and it'll stab the brakes. In my experience, it happens probably every 100-200 miles of freeway driving. I'm getting pretty good at predicting in advance what scene in front of the car is likely to freak out the car. And I drive with my foot resting on the accelerator ready to counteract the braking as quickly as possible. I'd really like the option to disable TACC and have a regular cruise control. We know the software supports that, because non-AP cars have it. Just make it available to all of us.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    I was definitely seeing PB incidents closer to every 50-100mi, than 100-200mi.. but yes they are frequent enough in some road conditions its hard to believe people have never seen one. Further - I think it promotes bad tradeoffs that reduce safety. Like you, I sometimes ended up cruising with my foot over the accelerator to protect from being rear ended due to PB. This is exactly the opposite of driver instruction and what is logically safer. If we had to choose where to rest a foot in anticipation, the brake is the better place to be.