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Honestly, all due to the Musk influence you can "move fast and break things" even when it comes to 1-ton machines with humans inside moving at 80 miles an hour.

Honestly, all due to the Musk influence you can "move fast and break things" even when it comes to 1-ton machines with humans inside moving at 80 miles an hour. That Tesla was allowed to test in production with basically no legal liability is so messed up

ajross 3y ago
FWIW: Tesla is absolutely liable for any damages resulting from AP/FSD usage. They aren't protected in any way by law or regulation. You want to sue them, you go right ahead. Normally I'd expect the fact that they aren't losing these suits regularly to factor as a prior in people's opinions about the cars' safety. But I've also been in enough of these threads to know that it's actually all about people's opinions of the CEO and not the product.
- bradtemp 3y ago
  That's not correct, they are no more liable than carmakers are if you are using cruise control. Unless you can show in court that their system was defective. It is designed to not be able to do the full driving task, to need interventions. It performs as designed.
  - ajross 3y ago
    Isn't that what I said? The logic above would work the same for cruise control. If you ship a bad cruise control or other automation system, you get sued and lose. Toyota paid out more than a billion dollars a few years back due to[1] problems with their fly-by-wire accelerator design. It's not like you can't punish an automaker for safety issues. They get sued all the time, successfully. Except, notably, the one you want to yell about the most. I'm just saying that should maybe be part of your analysis. Look. The cars are safe. We've been having the same argument, again and again, for years and years now. People show up in these threads just taking as a given that these systems are unsafe, and refuse to adjust that prior as these cars become some of the most popular products as a market. [1] What were perceived as -- IIRC it's since been argued that the problem in the suit didn't actually exist. And they settled anyway!
- sidibe 3y ago
  The product is ridiculous regardless of the CEO. It's at least false advertising or fraud. Looking at any video of it in action it's clearly also dangerous. It's not all about cherry picking either, on YouTube these are all big fans trying to make it seem great, but every few minutes it does something crazy. I think the fact that it has supporters is because of the CEO, not the fact that it has detractors, though I'm sure some are more vehement because of the CEO.
  - ajross 3y ago
    > The product is ridiculous regardless of the CEO. It's amazing. The most fun I've had in a vehicle in my whole life, and absolutely worth the purchase price. I'm sorry you aren't impressed, really, and I genuinely can't understand why there's so much hate about something so great. But none of that is relevant here. The question at hand is "is it safe?", and the clear answer is "yes, quite".
    - ashwagary 3y ago
      >It's amazing. The most fun I've had in a vehicle It may be fun for you but its not fun for all the other people on the road put at risk by Tesla owners that dont know the limitations of their vehicles.
    - Incipient 3y ago
      I used auto steer for about 10 minutes before it got confused on a lane split and tried to crash me into a light pole =( I hope it would have stopped before hitting it, but it really didn't look like it was going to!
    - piva00 3y ago
      Two weeks ago I took a ride on a friend's Tesla Model S with Autopilot 2.0 here in Sweden, with the FSD feature enabled, he tried to show me how awesome it was. Driving around for 15 minutes on the highway was nice until we got into the streets inside a part of the city, not even 5 minutes in the city the car tried to steer itself into a curb during a turn, almost hitting a pedestrian waiting for the light. No thanks, that shouldn't be allowed on public roads.

ajross 3y ago

FWIW: Tesla is absolutely liable for any damages resulting from AP/FSD usage. They aren't protected in any way by law or regulation. You want to sue them, you go right ahead. Normally I'd expect the fact that they aren't losing these suits regularly to factor as a prior in people's opinions about the cars' safety. But I've also been in enough of these threads to know that it's actually all about people's opinions of the CEO and not the product.

bradtemp 3y ago
That's not correct, they are no more liable than carmakers are if you are using cruise control. Unless you can show in court that their system was defective. It is designed to not be able to do the full driving task, to need interventions. It performs as designed.
- ajross 3y ago
  Isn't that what I said? The logic above would work the same for cruise control. If you ship a bad cruise control or other automation system, you get sued and lose. Toyota paid out more than a billion dollars a few years back due to[1] problems with their fly-by-wire accelerator design. It's not like you can't punish an automaker for safety issues. They get sued all the time, successfully. Except, notably, the one you want to yell about the most. I'm just saying that should maybe be part of your analysis. Look. The cars are safe. We've been having the same argument, again and again, for years and years now. People show up in these threads just taking as a given that these systems are unsafe, and refuse to adjust that prior as these cars become some of the most popular products as a market. [1] What were perceived as -- IIRC it's since been argued that the problem in the suit didn't actually exist. And they settled anyway!
sidibe 3y ago
The product is ridiculous regardless of the CEO. It's at least false advertising or fraud. Looking at any video of it in action it's clearly also dangerous. It's not all about cherry picking either, on YouTube these are all big fans trying to make it seem great, but every few minutes it does something crazy. I think the fact that it has supporters is because of the CEO, not the fact that it has detractors, though I'm sure some are more vehement because of the CEO.
- ajross 3y ago
  > The product is ridiculous regardless of the CEO. It's amazing. The most fun I've had in a vehicle in my whole life, and absolutely worth the purchase price. I'm sorry you aren't impressed, really, and I genuinely can't understand why there's so much hate about something so great. But none of that is relevant here. The question at hand is "is it safe?", and the clear answer is "yes, quite".
  - ashwagary 3y ago
    >It's amazing. The most fun I've had in a vehicle It may be fun for you but its not fun for all the other people on the road put at risk by Tesla owners that dont know the limitations of their vehicles.
  - Incipient 3y ago
    I used auto steer for about 10 minutes before it got confused on a lane split and tried to crash me into a light pole =( I hope it would have stopped before hitting it, but it really didn't look like it was going to!
  - piva00 3y ago
    Two weeks ago I took a ride on a friend's Tesla Model S with Autopilot 2.0 here in Sweden, with the FSD feature enabled, he tried to show me how awesome it was. Driving around for 15 minutes on the highway was nice until we got into the streets inside a part of the city, not even 5 minutes in the city the car tried to steer itself into a curb during a turn, almost hitting a pedestrian waiting for the light. No thanks, that shouldn't be allowed on public roads.