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Lots of things here are no longer true. For example FSD does work on the highway now not just city streets. Also note this is written on Fobes’s contributor ak

• ra7 3y ago
  > Lots of things here are no longer true. For example FSD does work on the highway now not just city streets. FSD on highways has only been released recently. This report is as of Q4 2022. In fact, Tesla themselves say “FSD beta engaged in mostly non-highway miles” in the report. > I’d guess we are seeing this here today because someone decided it was a good day to FUD the company so they can make a buck shorting the stock. Ah, FUD and shorting. A classic and predictable response to anything negative about Tesla.
  • optimiz3 3y ago
    Both can be true.
    • decafninja 3y ago
      The Tesla investing community on Twitter has a lot of zealots that practically worship Elon and launch vitriolic crusade against even fellow "bears" who make minor criticisms at their god-emperor, his companies, or their products.
• ProAm 3y ago
  > Bottom line, Teslas are incredible cars and most people that have bad things to say about them seem to never have owned one. You can't argue about the stream of lies about capabilities and roadmap on Tesla. And everyone I know that owns one still complains about build quality, customer service and actual range. The only good thing I hear constantly is drive train.
  • pmorici 3y ago
    I own one myself and know several people who have gotten one more recently and they all love them and have had zero issues with any of those things. Personally have taken my Model 3 on many long road trips and it’s great. Have the option to use our gas SUV instead but wouldn’t even consider that since it doesn’t have Autopilot/FSD Unlikely to consider any but a Tesla when the time comes to replace our gas SUV.
  • jackmott42 3y ago
    I owned a model 3 and I had no complaints about build quality or actual range. Customer service was not great but similar to any other car dealer.
  • bmitc 3y ago
    This isn't responding to you but rather tagging along on the part you quoted. I don't understand this perspective that I must own something to have a negative opinion or sentiment about something. Are we supposed to purchase cars starting at $40,000 just so we are allowed to critique them? Does it not make sense that someone hasn't purchased such a vehicle and has a negative opinion on it because they have done their research and discovered the negatives?
    • pmorici 3y ago
      You don’t have to have owned one but I don’t see how you can have a strongly held opinion on a product you haven’t at least experienced.
      • rootusrootus 3y ago
        Let's be honest. The majority of the cheerleading, at least in the past, was coming from non-owners. So it's fair to hear criticism from non-owners too. Can't tell you how many times I had someone tell me Tesla was perfect and all my experiences were invalid, when they didn't actually own a Tesla while I've owned two of them.
        • 3y ago
• f38zf5vdt 3y ago
  It's written by Brad Templeton, a professional writer and consultant on self-driving vehicles since 2007. He owns 21 patents on self-driving vehicle technology.
  • pmorici 3y ago
    Plenty of quasi experts make a living shilling a point of view. I’ve just seen so much trash published under the Forbes “contributor” by line that I automatically distrust it at this point.
    • ChatGTP 3y ago
      This comment really belongs on some other type of forum, not this one.
    • d23 3y ago
      If you are going to do an ad hominem attack, at least cite some specifics about this particular author. Otherwise, this adds nothing to the conversation.
      • pmorici 3y ago
        The parent was an appeal to authority. My comment wasn’t so much about this particular author as it was a comment on the general motivations of people who write on the Forbes contributor platform. In this case the author bills themselves as a consultant on self driving cars so given the venue of publication one has to wonder whether they were paid to write this. Writing under the Forbes contributor by line is an extremely questionable choice in any case.
    • xnx 3y ago
      I feel the same about Forbes, but I really like this author. I think it hurts his credibility to publish his content there.
  • bmitc 3y ago
    > He owns 21 patents on self-driving vehicle technology. Then it might make sense for him to declare how much he gets from the patent licenses or if Tesla itself licenses any of the patents, because those are possible conflicts of interest.
• jackmott42 3y ago
  I have owned a model 3, and I loved it, and I agree with almost every negative take on the FSD scam.
  • steveBK123 3y ago
    Same, had one for 4 years. Mostly a great car, advanced software, fast, good range, amazing charging network, etc. But the FSD stuff is borderline scam. EAP itself barely improved in my 4 years of ownership, and the sporadic phantom braking incidents could make it unusable on some software versions/roads/conditions/days/random.
    • jackmott42 3y ago
      Yeah, can't use cruise control in a Tesla, because they insist on trying to vision only and not provide a normal option. So you can't use it because it stabs the brakes in random moments. To anyone about to reply that cruise control never phantom brakes for them, it will. Just keep using it.
      • steveBK123 3y ago
        Yup. The problem is similar to LLM hallucinations. It does not make predictable errors (slow response for older driver / aggressive driving by young male driver / etc). It's a lot of random error no healthy human would make. It's not even consistent on routes.. you might find it to be a huge relief to use on your commute and then one day it almost kills you on its 47th route on this road. It used to lose its mind on HOV lane mergers while driving in HOV lane like 1 out of 3 times. It used to hard brake for a Burger King roadside sign 20 feet in the air because perceptually its vision system read this as a stop sign. It used to slam the brakes and cut the speed 30mph because it suddenly thought it was on the local road under the highway I was driving. It used to phantom brake for highway overpass shadows in high midday sun. They slowly fixed that, but then introduced some imperceptible conditions that still triggered phantom braking in other lighting. It allegedly avoids objects, and would brake overly hard for someone merging in front multiple car lengths away. Meanwhile very close cut-ins would often get missed, and I had 3 particularly hair raising incidents over the life of the car in which I was cutoff at highway speed and the car just.. did nothing. I had to brake so hard the car lost all traction.
• justapassenger 3y ago
  Teslas can be incredible cars and FSD can be a scam at the same time.
• boringg 3y ago
  Bottom line - Forbe's a terrible source for any credible information (Tesla related or not).
  • boringg 3y ago
    Downvote or not i stand firm Forbes is a trash media asset that you can easily pay your way onto. Its existence is a testament to our vanity of top wealthiest individuals list.
• cameldrv 3y ago
  Forbes generally is bad but Brad Templeton is a solid commentator on AVs for a long time.
  • pmorici 3y ago
    Someone should tell him to get off Forbes.
    • ra7 3y ago
      Why don't you try addressing the content?
      • cptcobalt 3y ago
        It is a reasonable concern. That domain offers negative weight in the relative "truthiness" of reporting, since it is now open to contributors of very wide skill, variety, and reporting rigor. The Forbes name used to matter, but it's contributor model drags the perception of brand accuracy down.
        • ra7 3y ago
          Brad Templeton is a credible author in the self driving space. It seems like the Forbes concern is just a convenient excuse to dismiss content that doesn't agree with the GP's view points.
      • pmorici 3y ago
        I did up thread.
• xnx 3y ago
  > Bottom line, Teslas are incredible cars and most people that have bad things to say about them seem to never have owned one. The author owns a Tesla and likes it a lot.
  • netsharc 3y ago
    If you've spent 5 digits amount of money on something, it's easier to say "Oh this thing does X, I like it!" and dismiss all the faults as "little things" rather than say "Oh this thing sucks, I've been duped, I'm a fool!". Not sure why I'm saying this, I'd tell GP to check his bias, but he'll probably conclude, "Nah, I'm clever enough to be objective about this!"... we all think we're clever enough, and try to protect that idea in our heads.
• smcl 3y ago
  Hang on the main complaint in this article is that Tesla is providing some road safety statistics that to a normie look surprisingly good, but which on closer inspection rely on comparisons that are statistically misleading and involve some biases should have been controlled for. You've not really engaged with that and have instead - speculated that the author is spreading FUD because they're short Tesla - decided that the report is wrong because it was written on a Forbes platform you say is for crypto scams - elsewhere used anecdata to refute it - "I own one myself and know several people who have gotten one more recently and they all love them and have had zero issues" With all due respect ... this is fanboi behaviour.
  • pmorici 3y ago
    He makes a lot of claims he doesn’t substantiate or source in the course of his argument about his issue with the way the stats are reported. “It’s also true that drivers are more likely to engage Autopilot in easy driving conditions — clear roads with no construction and nice weather.” Is it? That doesn’t jive with my personal experience and how I use it. He also claims that if users don’t intervene FSD will surely crash. This also strikes me as not really true most take overs in my experience are because the car is being overlying cautious or annoying in some way that isn’t dangerous. He claims that people that buy Teslas are old and wealthy which skews the data since they are naturally safer drivers but doesn’t cite any source showing that is true. Teslas cost about the average of a new US vehicle. Another thing that was maybe true 5-10 years ago but no longer. If he had wanted to write a neutral point of view article about how he would like to see the self driving industry report safely stats that would be worthwhile but this just seems to be ragging on what one company is doing when everyone else doesn’t report this stuff at all and there isn’t an acceptable industry standard yet. Like do we have statistics from GM’s Cruise self driving unit, or Google Waymo? My comments about the car being great were more directed at the others in this thread ragging them.
    • ra7 3y ago
      > If he had wanted to write a neutral point of view article about how he would like to see the self driving industry report safely stats that would be worthwhile but this just seems to be ragging on what one company is doing when everyone else doesn’t report this stuff at all and there isn’t an acceptable industry standard yet. Like do we have statistics from GM’s Cruise self driving unit, or Google Waymo? Ugh, completely wrong. Have you heard of CA DMV disengagement/crash reports? Waymo and Cruise provide detailed reports of incidents to regulatory authorities. In fact, Waymo goes out of its way to publish detailed safety data about their operations: https://waymo.com/safety/ https://waymo.com/safety/
• nixass 3y ago
  > For example FSD does work on the highway now not just city streets. Adaptive cruise control, as it should really be called, works with other manufacturers for years now. Tesla is FUD-ing themselves with false advertising as well as people buying into it
  • rootusrootus 3y ago
    FWIW, adaptive cruise is part of autopilot (along with lane keeping), not FSD. FSD is intended to drive the car in all situations, way beyond lane keeping. AP is included on all Teslas now, FSD is a very expensive option.
• rurp 3y ago
  > Bottom line, Teslas are incredible cars and most people that have bad things to say about them seem to never have owned one. I get that the reality distortion field is strong with Musk, but this is especially silly. People generally try to avoid buying products that they think are bad. Also it's not like Teslas are some exclusive product these days. Most people in tech probably know at least one person with one. For me personally, experiencing Tesla's self driving made me even less interested in owning one.