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Ruby is a wonderful language, I just wish I wasn't stuck with 2.6 at work because all of the improvements especially in Ruby 3.0 are just wonderful. I keep wan

Ruby is a wonderful language, I just wish I wasn't stuck with 2.6 at work because all of the improvements especially in Ruby 3.0 are just wonderful. I keep wanting to branch out to other languages but keep coming back to Ruby as my bread and butter.

werdnapk 3y ago
You really need to push to upgrade to 3.0. Ruby 2.6 and 2.7 have passed EOL and are no longer being supported.
- web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
  Believe me, I know. But management doesn't give a crap about that. We're still on Postgres 10 as well as Redis 5. Send help.
  - rakoo 3y ago
    1. Ask management to write in full letters and sign a paper basically saying "I acknowledge that not maintaining software up-to-date is a security risk and opens the company to substantial financial damage" 2. Hire a Pwn-As-A-Service to extract data from your company from the outside 3. Tell management "I told you so" You didn't read this here More seriously, I think the best you can do is not expect to find happiness in a setting that you don't fully control (ie your job), accept that, and look for joy elsewhere. It might be another job, it might be another hobby. Work fewer hours.
    - izietto 3y ago
      > More seriously, I think the best you can do is not expect to find happiness in a setting that you don't fully control (ie your job), accept that, and look for joy elsewhere. It might be another job, it might be another hobby. Work fewer hours. That's how I upgraded from Ruby 2.4 / Rails 5.0 to Ruby 3.2 / Rails 7.0
    - web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
      I appreciate your advice. I regularly voice concerns about security and let management make decisions. From my perspective I've done my due diligence and my hands are clean. I've stopped looking for "joy" from work. Mainly focused on finding joy with my children and other hobbies, while working as little as possible. The job is the means to that end now, rather than the end itself. They continue to pay me and it supports the things I want to do outside of work so I am "happy" enough. The work itself is also moderately interesting and a decent challenge from a domain perspective, so it's not all bad.
      - rakoo 3y ago
        > I appreciate your advice. I regularly voice concerns about security and let management make decisions. From my perspective I've done my due diligence and my hands are clean. I feel like the best you can do unironically is the first step I outlined: ask management to formally recognize that despite your warnings, they choose cost reduction. Have a trace of that, not just in case of problems, but for yourself: it's a great reminder that as long as you aren't in charge, it can't be your problem.
  - nateberkopec 3y ago
    Woof. Postgres 11+ also has some nice speed improvements with each version as well.
    - web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
      I do some...let's say non-trivial reporting and there's so many new features in modern postgres that would make my life so much easier, whenever I accidentally end up on a documentation page for a newer version with something I want but can't use I die a little inside.
  - twic 3y ago
    Oh in that case, there's actually a very simple way to upgrade: get a job somewhere else.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
andruby 3y ago
If you're willing to share, what's holding your work back at 2.6. Afaik the upgrade has been reasonably smooth, and nothing like the ruby 1.9 days.
- web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
  > If you're willing to share, what's holding your work back at 2.6. Management.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    Have you considered replacing them with ChatGPT?
    - newswasboring 3y ago
      I think if someone can replace their management with chatGPT, they can probably just do the migration :P
  - williamdclt 3y ago
    I'm not saying that it's the case for you, but a lot of time I've seen that this actually means "engineers aren't able/willing to talk with management to justify the value of maintainance and make a concrete proposal of how to go about it". But then again, some other times management just sucks.
    - newswasboring 3y ago
      Naah, most of the times its that management doesn't want to pay the migration cost. They will keep using a system till it stops producing value, or till adding new things is profitable. They can't give a damn about day to day or what's cool/elegant/maintainable because they don't interact with the innards, ever. These decisions are made with a single equation, if migration cost > new feature cost + maintenance, they don't want to migrate. Edit: The maintenance isn't a long term view btw. They are not looking at a 5-6 year window where the migration cost slowly pays off. They are worried about optimizing the next quarter.
cschneid 3y ago
I moved us up from 2.4 to 2.7 last year trivially. Basically just changing the version base in our dockerfile. A few gems had to go up too, to support the kwargs changes. But like... 1 day of work. I'm looking to go to 3.x soon too, after I get our EOL'd rails & lots of gems updated. What features in particular are you looking at in Ruby 3.0? The type system stuff seems really cool, but I haven't been hearing much about it in the wild.
- rst 3y ago
  Unfortunately, the switch from 2.7 to 3.0 is likely to be more troublesome, due mostly to the change in handling keyword arguments (they're no longer treated as equivalent to a last positional argument that happens to be a hash, and you need to toss in '*' to convert from one convention to the other). This isn't hard to clean up if you have good test coverage... but one reason for not having done upgrades is not having that.
  - web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
    This is a convention we've already adopted but we haven't had the chance to do a clean sweep of the rest of the codebase unfortunately. You're right though, it's one of our biggest hurdles to upgrading.
olivierlacan 3y ago
May I recommend to anyone facing similar issues and who may have at least some agency in dealing with the problem (can't assume you do, so forgive me in that case) the incredible work of Victor Shepelev with Ruby References: https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html The site presents evolutions of Ruby since version 2.0 in an editorialized and well-written categorized release journal called "Ruby Evolution": https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html There's also individual version releases annotated as well, for example for the recent Ruby 3.2: https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/3.2.html https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/3.2.html Note that these are not copies of the NEWS.md typically released when minor and major versions of Ruby come out. Victor specifically spent time to write more descriptive notes of what each notable change occurred over time. It's an incredible resource and we're extremely lucky to have him in our community. There's even a changelog for this meta-changelog, which makes my little Keep a Changelog heart sing, so you can see evolutions of this site over time as well: https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/ https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/
Alifatisk 3y ago
There is ruby-next gem for polyfills :) https://rubygems.org/gems/ruby-next-core https://rubygems.org/gems/ruby-next-core
- mynonameaccount 3y ago
  very cool. Thanks

werdnapk 3y ago

You really need to push to upgrade to 3.0. Ruby 2.6 and 2.7 have passed EOL and are no longer being supported.

web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
Believe me, I know. But management doesn't give a crap about that. We're still on Postgres 10 as well as Redis 5. Send help.
- rakoo 3y ago
  1. Ask management to write in full letters and sign a paper basically saying "I acknowledge that not maintaining software up-to-date is a security risk and opens the company to substantial financial damage" 2. Hire a Pwn-As-A-Service to extract data from your company from the outside 3. Tell management "I told you so" You didn't read this here More seriously, I think the best you can do is not expect to find happiness in a setting that you don't fully control (ie your job), accept that, and look for joy elsewhere. It might be another job, it might be another hobby. Work fewer hours.
  - izietto 3y ago
    > More seriously, I think the best you can do is not expect to find happiness in a setting that you don't fully control (ie your job), accept that, and look for joy elsewhere. It might be another job, it might be another hobby. Work fewer hours. That's how I upgraded from Ruby 2.4 / Rails 5.0 to Ruby 3.2 / Rails 7.0
  - web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
    I appreciate your advice. I regularly voice concerns about security and let management make decisions. From my perspective I've done my due diligence and my hands are clean. I've stopped looking for "joy" from work. Mainly focused on finding joy with my children and other hobbies, while working as little as possible. The job is the means to that end now, rather than the end itself. They continue to pay me and it supports the things I want to do outside of work so I am "happy" enough. The work itself is also moderately interesting and a decent challenge from a domain perspective, so it's not all bad.
    - rakoo 3y ago
      > I appreciate your advice. I regularly voice concerns about security and let management make decisions. From my perspective I've done my due diligence and my hands are clean. I feel like the best you can do unironically is the first step I outlined: ask management to formally recognize that despite your warnings, they choose cost reduction. Have a trace of that, not just in case of problems, but for yourself: it's a great reminder that as long as you aren't in charge, it can't be your problem.
- nateberkopec 3y ago
  Woof. Postgres 11+ also has some nice speed improvements with each version as well.
  - web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
    I do some...let's say non-trivial reporting and there's so many new features in modern postgres that would make my life so much easier, whenever I accidentally end up on a documentation page for a newer version with something I want but can't use I die a little inside.
- twic 3y ago
  Oh in that case, there's actually a very simple way to upgrade: get a job somewhere else.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

andruby 3y ago

If you're willing to share, what's holding your work back at 2.6. Afaik the upgrade has been reasonably smooth, and nothing like the ruby 1.9 days.

web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
> If you're willing to share, what's holding your work back at 2.6. Management.
- kibwen 3y ago
  Have you considered replacing them with ChatGPT?
  - newswasboring 3y ago
    I think if someone can replace their management with chatGPT, they can probably just do the migration :P
- williamdclt 3y ago
  I'm not saying that it's the case for you, but a lot of time I've seen that this actually means "engineers aren't able/willing to talk with management to justify the value of maintainance and make a concrete proposal of how to go about it". But then again, some other times management just sucks.
  - newswasboring 3y ago
    Naah, most of the times its that management doesn't want to pay the migration cost. They will keep using a system till it stops producing value, or till adding new things is profitable. They can't give a damn about day to day or what's cool/elegant/maintainable because they don't interact with the innards, ever. These decisions are made with a single equation, if migration cost > new feature cost + maintenance, they don't want to migrate. Edit: The maintenance isn't a long term view btw. They are not looking at a 5-6 year window where the migration cost slowly pays off. They are worried about optimizing the next quarter.

cschneid 3y ago

I moved us up from 2.4 to 2.7 last year trivially. Basically just changing the version base in our dockerfile. A few gems had to go up too, to support the kwargs changes. But like... 1 day of work. I'm looking to go to 3.x soon too, after I get our EOL'd rails & lots of gems updated. What features in particular are you looking at in Ruby 3.0? The type system stuff seems really cool, but I haven't been hearing much about it in the wild.

rst 3y ago
Unfortunately, the switch from 2.7 to 3.0 is likely to be more troublesome, due mostly to the change in handling keyword arguments (they're no longer treated as equivalent to a last positional argument that happens to be a hash, and you need to toss in '*' to convert from one convention to the other). This isn't hard to clean up if you have good test coverage... but one reason for not having done upgrades is not having that.
- web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
  This is a convention we've already adopted but we haven't had the chance to do a clean sweep of the rest of the codebase unfortunately. You're right though, it's one of our biggest hurdles to upgrading.

olivierlacan 3y ago

May I recommend to anyone facing similar issues and who may have at least some agency in dealing with the problem (can't assume you do, so forgive me in that case) the incredible work of Victor Shepelev with Ruby References: https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html The site presents evolutions of Ruby since version 2.0 in an editorialized and well-written categorized release journal called "Ruby Evolution": https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/evolution.html There's also individual version releases annotated as well, for example for the recent Ruby 3.2: https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/3.2.html https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/3.2.html Note that these are not copies of the NEWS.md typically released when minor and major versions of Ruby come out. Victor specifically spent time to write more descriptive notes of what each notable change occurred over time. It's an incredible resource and we're extremely lucky to have him in our community. There's even a changelog for this meta-changelog, which makes my little Keep a Changelog heart sing, so you can see evolutions of this site over time as well: https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/ https://rubyreferences.github.io/rubychanges/

Alifatisk 3y ago

There is ruby-next gem for polyfills :) https://rubygems.org/gems/ruby-next-core https://rubygems.org/gems/ruby-next-core

mynonameaccount 3y ago
very cool. Thanks