18 ms·

The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

202 points by mrleinad 3y ago

RugnirViking 3y ago
Interesting. Note this has not yet been peer-reviewed, so findings must be taken with an especially large pinch of salt even compared to your average paper. In this case, they only looked at 20 adults over 2 weeks, so I feel that any conclusions drawn here are circumstancial at best. Apparently the reseach was funded by NIH and therefore at least partly the taxpayer. Seems like a bit of a strange study to fund, in my opinion nothing useful can possibly result from such a tiny study. I tried tracking down the specific grant they were given (they mention NIH award UL1 TR-002378 in the disclosure section of the paper but I can't find anything from that)
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  Most grants fund large projects out of which smaller papers are written. I don't think any grant is funding individual papers like you seem to imply
- peebz 3y ago
  Don't go too heavy on the salt.
  - RugnirViking 3y ago
    I suppose without further research we won't have any clue what effect salt will or won't have on my emotional state ;) But seriously, there is pretty much no point discussing the conclusions of such a deeply flawed paper.
- c_elegant 3y ago
  > Some limitations to this study beyond the subjective nature of the term “mood,” are compliance with following the study protocol, lack of exact control over the first and final diets, and uBiome’s bankruptcy that limited sample size further than expected. This is what you're looking for: it's a pilot study seeded by now-disgraced/bankrupt uBiome.
  - salamanderman 3y ago
    This should be the top comment.
- robwwilliams 3y ago
  Absolutely right. This is not even a proper pilot study.
- eyeundersand 3y ago
  This was going to be my comment too. N = 20 is atrocious and that too only over 2 weeks. Think any significant, measurable changes to mental health outcomes would probably take a lot longer than that to manifest. I further find results from any kind of "food recall" surveys (or just surveys in general) hard to believe. Stated vs. revealed preferences/outcomes should be a bigger debate imo.
  - mtrpcic 3y ago
    Any major changes to gut biome will definitely take more than two weeks. Anyone who has ever had to do an elimination diet will tell you that it can take 4 to 6 weeks for things to normalize when making dietary changes.
r_singh 3y ago
Has anyone researched the opposite? Like the role of mood and happiness on the gut microbiome. I was diagnosed with Celiac 5 years ago, could never gain weight and had my share of struggles with anxiety etc. I recently found a counsellor who told me to stop overthinking, seeking knowledge and a few other things which after following I gained 5 kilos and became a happier person. I always thought my gut was to blame but a few simple practices seem to be fixing my gut too.
- electric_mayhem 3y ago
  Can you clarify on “seeking knowledge”? Is this something you were supposed to stop along with overthinking, or things you were supposed to learn that would help- if the latter, what were those bits of knowledge? And elaborate, specifically, on “a few other things”?
  - r_singh 3y ago
    With respect to these things he advised me to Slow down - deep breath and chant om daily Seek only that knowledge which helps me in my field of work Think only the amount that helps me propel towards acting on the next step
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- PragmaticPulp 3y ago
  The connection is bidirectional, yes. Mental health issues have been associated with changes in appetite. It’s a simpler relation, though, and is more a function of hormones and nervous system activity than microbiome.
- Llamamoe 3y ago
  > [...] told me to stop overthinking, seeking knowledge and a few other [...] That's something people are always telling you, might as well have been chance that things improved and you've linked it with life events, as humans do- we're a storytelling species, we always seek to explain things in our lives through the prism of our decisions and thoughts.
amanaplanacanal 3y ago
This doesn’t seem to be worded very well: > greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression Carbohydrate was positively correlated, and fat was negatively correlated with anxiety and depression.
- samstave 3y ago
  Your brain needs fats. Your muscles need carbs. You need to exercise both. Ill never forget the comment of my grandmother, a life-long surgical nurse to one of the top neurosurgeons in California. - My daughter was opening the fridge and eating handfuls of butter when she was tall enough to do so (abt 3 years old) I called my grandmother and asked her about this She said to me : "let her do it, the brain needs fats to grow" my daughter is smart as heck. She is 18 now and is wicked smart. -- Also we benefit from the Norwegian gut biom... we can handle any lactose. I think that gut biome transfers are actually a new genre of biomedical science... (recall the ulcer guy? he proved that ulcers were a bad bacteria.) I really think that we should pursue gut biome treatments
  - thisisbrians 3y ago
    The body can make carbs from proteins or fats. You don't _need_ dietary carbs (but will naturally get some in the course of eating a healthy diet).
  - fnord77 3y ago
    The consumption of a carbohydrate-rich, protein-poor meal or snack can increase the synthesis of the brain neurotransmitter serotonin; proteins block this effect.
  - kulahan 3y ago
    I think science is moving in this direction, but it's taking time. I've seen arguments in favor of fecal infusions (where they take fecal matter from someone with a healthy gut microbiome to someone with an unhealthy one). It has shown some promise in helping some rather stubborn illnesses. But still, these things take a long time.
runlaszlorun 3y ago
I’ll confess that I’ve only read the abstract, but was totally confused by this apparent contradiction… > We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression vs > We have shown that changing diet affects mood and happiness, that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression The first says fat reduces anxiety and depression. The second seems to imply it reduces it- unless “directly associated” actually means “negatively correlated”?? Also, are they saying that increased fiber reduces gut biome diversity? -edited for typo-
- twobitshifter 3y ago
  I guess directly associated doesn’t indicate the direction of the correlation. The paper could use another round of edits, there are several confusing phrases.
- dave84 3y ago
  The word ‘and’ appears to be important here. Fat and protein. Fat and carbohydrate.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Looks like they didn't find significant effects when you eat fat, carb, protein independently (maybe they didn't look at it independently, idk). But if you eat fat along with protein, or if you eat fat along with carb, they find significant effects.
nimbius 3y ago
I believe the study is onto something pretty conclusive. Speaking anecdotally, ive never eaten anything from Chipotle that didnt leave me with a haunting sensation of fear and remorse.
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
  Chipotlaway can take care of the bloodstains, if not the fear and remorse.
blakesterz 3y ago
"After the diet change, we observed significant changes in measures of anxiety, well-being and happiness, and without changes in gut microbiome diversity. We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression, while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression." I think most of us would agree that makes sense? Eat like crap, feel like crap? "We also found strong negative correlations between total calories and total fiber intake with gut microbiome diversity without correlations to measures of mental health, mood or happiness.... inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity." I kept reading this second paragraph trying to understand the "without correlations" part. And also the negative correlations part. And then the full-text has this, which helped I think: "Furthermore, total calories and fiber had a negative correlation with gut microbiome diversity, and anxiety and depression decrease as the gut diversity increases."
- hinkley 3y ago
  Fiber reducing biodiversity would be news. I thought consensus was the other way around?
  - MavropaliasG 3y ago
    That's the kind of garbage results you get when you run a study with only 20 participants. Also they changed to both mediterranean and ketogenic? Wtf
  - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
    Yeah, I thought fiber is literally food for gut microbes. WTF?
  - goda90 3y ago
    I wonder if it's a case of soluble vs insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber is often described as speeding up transit through the intestines, which might leave microbes less food to eat, or increase the microbes being driven out before they can establish.
Llamamoe 3y ago
I recommend this overview of effect of human diet on the gut microbiome: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950569/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950569/?report... Tl;dr is that while the gut microbiome varies by diet, it's largely stable after around 3 years of age, and even extreme dietary changes only result in impermanent shifts in relative abundances and function of your bacteria.
volleygman180 3y ago
I'm glad to see more studies on this, as it's long been misunderstood how strong of a connection there is between the gut microbiome and mental health. Some go as far to referring to the gut as our second-brain, due to its critical role. Serotonin (the moood-regulating neurotransmitter), for instance, is produced _primarily_ in the gut (up to 95% of it). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469458/#:~:text=The%20gut%20provides%20approximately%2095,to%20the%20central%20nerve%20system https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469458/#:~:tex....
- runlaszlorun 3y ago
  That serotonin study was an eye opener for me. As a non-professional it sure seems like we have only half a clue how the body works.
- southwesterly 3y ago
  That’s really interesting and helps explain all sorts of things in my life. Thanks for the link.
- robwwilliams 3y ago
  But unfortunately a great deal if hype. And junk science like this work.
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Since this study only explored a 2 week change, does anyone have any info on more permanent changes? I’m uninterested in temporarily having less anxiety for 2 weeks. I would like to know what’s my anxiety after 2 years!
blastro 3y ago
I sleep much better after eating basic food that my microbiome seems to enjoy: white rice.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  heavy metals in rice https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7663342/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7663342/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34073642/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34073642/
  - blastro 3y ago
    thanks for that, I buy organic white rice from california which appears to be the least bad origin in those papers
- pazimzadeh 3y ago
  White rice lacks Vitamin B https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/eating-way-too-much-rice-almost-doomed-japans-imperial-navy-59542 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/eating-way-too-much-r...
aszantu 3y ago
that's literally me... I've observed that it takes about 4 days between carb consumption and mental breakdown. Also before the mental breakdown appears, the smell changes from nice to sour. The sour smell seems to be connected to high stress, it's really hard to remove from clothes.
coding123 3y ago
My wife has to eat protein (in her case meat) with carbs. If she eats carbs with no protein she has anxiety. It's so awesome that we are finally studying things like this.
- DrThunder 3y ago
  I'm the same. I assume it's spiking my glucose levels too much when I don't include protein. She may have a bit of reactive hypoglycemia going on. Wonky sugar spikes can really mess with people mentally.
- jononomo 3y ago
  I have eliminated all plants from my diet, and it is indescribable how positively it affects your mental and physical health. It is like accessing an entirely new dimension of well-being. You can't even imagine how good it is possible to feel until you've ditched all plant-based calories.
  - hirvi74 3y ago
    How affordable are such changes for the average person? It seems like a carnivorous diet would be significantly more expensive than alternatives.
    - jononomo 3y ago
      Well, you save money by not buying anything other than beef, and you save money by eliminating all chronic diseases from your life. Also, you save ridiculous amounts of time grocery shopping and cooking. You also spend about 80% less time in the bathroom. If I were to buy two ribeye steaks per day from Wegman's, that would run about $30. You could probably get them cheaper at Costco. If you go for just eggs and ground beef, then you could eat for $10/day, probably.
      - coding123 3y ago
        On the other hand, I purchase pretty much just organic chicken. Breasts these days are like $17 if I get a little more than a pound in CA. Saving money on things like thighs and drumsticks though.
xapata 3y ago
N = 20. Sounds like p-hacking to me.
SCAQTony 3y ago
I was disappointed how vague carbs were defined, but I suspect we can all agree the best diet for an omnivore is the least processed food is the best choice. Anything that comes in a box or can should be suspect. Soup is best when the broth is made from leftover chicken bones and the rest of it with chicken meat and raw veggies. Fruit is better than candy, fish is better than bacon. YMMV
- feoren 3y ago
  > I suspect we can all agree the best diet for an omnivore is the least processed food is the best choice Given that nobody can even define what "processed food" means: no, no we cannot all agree on that. It's an utterly meaningless term.
orzig 3y ago
Look at the plots, there is one huge outlier in the small number of overall samples which is driving a lot of the results. I don’t even disagree with the conclusions, but this is not strong evidence for it.
algoatecorn 3y ago
Last year, I started an experiment with my diet. It started with the idea of eating as cheaply as possible with nutrient dense foods, but I started off with an elimination diet. I chose 2-3 "meals" that I could easily prep and only cost $2-4 each. Mostly eggs, ground beef, white rice, potatoes. I quickly added bell peppers and onions. I tracked macros, and filled in the micros with new additions. Calories as well of course. The result was fantastic. 1. I got really fast at cooking, and even now that I cook more complex meals, I'm much faster than before. Probably because I introduced new ingredients gradually and maintained efficiency in the kitchen. 2. My ability to eyeball macros on a plate is pretty good now. It's much easier to regulate my energy levels because of this. I can also guess my bodyweight within ~5lbs before checking the scale. 3. I figured out what I digest most easily. As an athlete, I can't really afford to have days where I'm "bathroom dependent". The consistency in all these aspects has greatly improved my life. If you want to get better at cooking, understand your body better, save time, and eat a healthier diet, this method might work well for you. Disclaimer: after the first 2-3 weeks, I switched from 100% compliance to ~80% compliance. That way I get the benefits of regimented eating without going crazy. Even if you eat healthy, it's not good to obsess over calories and food options.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > I chose 2-3 "meals" that I could easily prep and only cost $2-4 each. Mostly eggs, ground beef, white rice, potatoes. I quickly added bell peppers and onions I do this for home lunches. The gustatory and health benefits of a varied diet are too much to ignore. But the efficiency gains, and comfort in the familiar, are also appealing. So one of eggs or salmon; brown rice or farro; and combinations of bell peppers, alliums (usually onions, scallions and garlic), cherry tomatoes and any other junk I have in the vegetable drawer. Bonus points for cooked in a wok, because cook time is like thirty seconds and you keep crisp yet still sweetened veggies. > figured out what I digest most easily. As an athlete, I can't really afford to have days where I'm "bathroom dependent" Would note that most of our guts are super adaptable. Avoiding foods that upset your stomach is reasonable. But doing this too much can sensitize the gut.
- reubenswartz 3y ago
  I make a salad most days for lunch. Some variation in ingredients, but I can have a healthy meal in < 5 minutes that I actually crave and I have good energy through out the afternoon. If you had told me when I was younger that I do this and it's not a punishment, I would not have believed you, but highly recommend.
DrThunder 3y ago
Does this mean the all knowing FDA is wrong? They told me Frosted mini-wheats, Lucky Charms, cheerios are better than ground beef, cheddar, eggs, and butter.
mrinterweb 3y ago
> For this pilot study, we enrolled 20 adults to follow this protocol Is that even a large enough of a sample size to draw a conclusion from? Probably a big enough sample size to get funding for a larger study, but not big enough to draw general conclusions from.
- robwwilliams 3y ago
  No, not at all.
jononomo 3y ago
"We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression."
jononomo 3y ago
Dr. Georgia Ede, a Harvard psychiatrist, has found that eliminating plants entirely from your diet leads to phenomenal mental health outcomes. Her findings jive well with the results reported in this paper. Her website is https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/ https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/
- pazimzadeh 3y ago
  I don't see how that jives with the paper, given that at follow-up, almost half of the people were on a vegetarian diet. It looks like she only has one paper on PubMed, where she is listed as "Independent Researcher." The paper makes no mentions of plants: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35873236/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35873236/. She does mention the SMILES trial, but that states the opposite: https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-017-0791-y https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291... the available evidence from observational studies suggests that diets higher in plant foods, such as vegetables, fruits, legumes and whole grains, and lean proteins, including fish, are associated with a reduced risk for depression and ModiMedDiet diet: The primary focus was on increasing diet quality by supporting the consumption of the following 12 key food groups (recommended servings in brackets): whole grains (5–8 servings per day); vegetables (6 per day); fruit (3 per day), legumes (3–4 per week); low-fat and unsweetened dairy foods (2–3 per day); raw and unsalted nuts (1 per day); fish (at least 2 per week); lean red meats (3–4 per week) [32], chicken (2–3 per week); eggs (up to 6 per week); and olive oil (3 tablespoons per day), whilst reducing intake of ‘extras’ foods, such as sweets, refined cereals, fried food, fast-food, processed meats and sugary drinks (no more than 3 per week). Red or white wine consumption beyond 2 standard drinks per day and all other alcohol (e.g. spirits, beer) were included within the ‘extras’ food group. Individuals were advised to select red wine preferably and only drink with meals. The dietary composition of the ModiMedDiet was as follows: protein 18% of total energy (E); fat 40% of E; carbohydrates 37% of E; alcohol 2% of E; fibre/other 3% of E. Note that we don't directly get energy from most fibers, so 3% energy does not mean 3% of the volume of food. Getting rid of plant/fiber from your diet is probably a terrible idea, unless you have a specific reason to do so. That's because if you don't give your microbiota something to eat, then it will eat you (starting with your mucus). A dietary fiber-deprived gut microbiota degrades the colonic mucus barrier and enhances pathogen susceptibility https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131798/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131798/ Bifidobacteria or Fiber Protects against Diet-Induced Microbiota-Mediated Colonic Mucus Deterioration https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312817304985 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S193131281... In people who have trouble digesting plants, they may have already lost the part of their microbiota which would digest the plants. So when re-introducing plants into your diet, you should do it gradually so that it doesn't overload your biota.
Balooga 3y ago
I lost about 70lbs in about 10 months by cutting out processed foods, cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit. And by not juicing, and not drinking smoothies. I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. I didn't try to reduce the amount of calories I was eating, just change where those calories were coming from. Weight went poof. Energy went way up and my mood improved.
- feoren 3y ago
  > cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit This is great advice for most people, depending on what "whole" means. Am I allowed to cut and cook my vegetables? Stick them in a food processor? Are they still "whole" then? I've never understood why people even bother to throw this word "whole" into anything. You just mean you didn't drink smoothies and concentrated fruit juice? > cutting out processed foods This is utterly meaningless bullshit. > I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. This may be the main reason you lost weight and feel better. If nothing else, it may be the reason you were able to stick to your dietary changes. I think everyone I know who lost a significant amount of weight was into strength training while they did it.
  - codyb 3y ago
    Whole foods is just a common way to say you're buying ingredients then making them yourself. I think you're just arguing semantics for meanings that are fairly commonly used.
  - smolder 3y ago
    Processed foods are a vaguely defined and somewhat arbitrary category of foods, but that does not mean the correlation between foods being highly processed and unhealthy is BS. Things that have ingredients like brominated vegetable oil or various other preservatives and stabilizers for texture and shelf life, artificial colors and lots of HFCS, meat slurries that have been pumped through tubes and formed into precise shapes, the "simulated yogurt" that wrapped the raisins in my trail mix... None of that stuff is a favor to your health. Food optimized for mass market scale and profitability is practically never optimized for nutritional value, except as a hollow gimmick, e.g. Vitamin Water.
robwwilliams 3y ago
Interesting general topic but this is a tiny short term unreviewed study that is getting way more attention than deserved. Twenty subjects over a few week is not a serious effort.
fnord77 3y ago
n = 20
charlysisto 3y ago
I don't know much about the gut microbiome, but it is pretty well established now that the ketones produced by fasting (or diet mimicking it like keto) have a powerful effect on the brain : as an alternative to glucose for fuelling neurone, and a signaling molecule to mitochondria for mitophagy (the cleaning up of the damaged ones) and mitogenesis. These processes can reactivate and repair group of neurones compromised by oxydative stress or insuline resistance and thus heal the mind. See Chris Palmer book : "Brain Energy" or Bikman's : "What makes Us Sick" or Gundry the "Keto Code"... All saying the same thing although with different perspectives. Yes the Brain is just another organ and we're starting to discover ways to trigger self healing processes which can leverage and/or take over the common chemical oriented cures mimicking neurotransmitters... It started 100 years ago at the Mayo clinic were they cured epileptic children with strict keto diet. Quit fascinating !
sofaygo 3y ago
Anecdotally, I agree with the conclusions the researchers propose. From an academic perspective, this study is poorly done, with an abstract that fails to fully encapsulate their findings. While this is a topic that is very important and deserves the attention,people shouldn’t be mislead into taking this paper at face value.
DoreenMichele 3y ago
Some outtakes: Bacteroides is predominant in people eating large amounts of protein (e.g. Western diet) Human studies have shown an increase in gut bacterial translocation in mood disorders.6,7 For example, in major depressive disorder there are significant increases in Bacteroidetes, Proteobacteria, and Actinobacteria and decreases in Firmicutes compared to controls. The benefits of ketogenic diets for controlling severe epilepsy may be mediated by the gut microbiome, as the effects can be reproduced in animal models by direct manipulation of gut bacterial enterotypes without changing diet.
throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
Last year, I went on a diet of only strawberry flavored candy peeps. I lost 50 lbs, my skin cleared up, and I feel like I have more energy. Clearly an all candy diet is something we need more research on, as it seems the status quo is to undersell the advantages of this high sucrose diet. Disclaimer: I now have Type 2 diabetes.
d23 3y ago
> We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression > We have shown that changing diet affects mood and happiness, that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression What?
GuB-42 3y ago
The introduction seems to be contradicting itself > We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression > greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression So? Is fat good or bad? (apparently, from the rest of the article, it is good)
- mattskr 3y ago
  From what I gather, it means the combination of high fat, high protein and low carb leads to lower anxiety. The combination of high fat, high carb and low protein leads to higher anxiety.
- lcedp 3y ago
  Perhaps, in the second sentence, they meant total calories. More fat with protein is good, more fat with carbs - bad. According to this paper. But, yes, the abstract section could be greatly improved.
tulio_ribeiro 3y ago
I've read some studies that suggest that the gut microbiome can influence mood and behavior through the vagus nerve, which connects the gut and the brain. For example, this[1] study showed that mice fed with a probiotic bacteria had lower depressive and anxious behaviors than mice whose vagus nerve was cut. Another study[2] showed that oral treatment with antidepressants altered the gut microbiome and increased vagal activity in rats, and that blocking the vagus nerve abolished the antidepressive effects. These studies imply that the gut-brain axis is more complex than just diet and microbiome diversity. Maybe there are other factors that mediate the effects of fat, protein and carbohydrates on mood and mental health. What do you think? [1] https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/how-gut-microbes-talk-to-the-vagus-nerve-e478ff7cf06 https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/how-gut-microbes-talk... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-50807-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-50807-8
keyle 3y ago
"... we enrolled 20 adults" ... for 2 weeks? Is that really all it takes to produce a study now?
Beaver117 3y ago
I'm so disappointed at the state of HN. Instead of good faith discussion we have a bunch of keto anti-carb people pushing their narrative. Did you forget that a large number of people are Asian, eat large servings of carbs (rice) every day and live longer and are healthier overall than western people? Wasn't the standard bodybuilder diet chicken, rice, and broccoli? All of a sudden carbs are now "crap" and everyone tries to be in ketosis 24/7.
jaredhallen 3y ago
> We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression... > ...that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression and inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity. So which is it when it comes to fat? My experience says fat and fiber make me feel good. Carbohydrates bad. Protein, neither good nor bad.
- saurik 3y ago
  I didn't see how to get the actual paper off this website. I got it off of ResearchGate, though. Maybe this inconsistency can be figured out there (I ran out of the time I was able to allocate towards figuring this out just now). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369458140_The_Role_of_Diet_on_the_Gut_Microbiome_Mood_and_Happiness https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369458140_The_Role_...
- syl_sau 3y ago
  The last paragraph of the Discussion section makes it clear that fat on its own isn't to blame: > This pilot study examined correlations between diet composition, mental health, mood and happiness, and the gut microbiome to find that fat and protein reduce anxiety and depression while carbohydrates have the opposite effect. As I'm understanding it, this is funded by a public health institution in the USA. Health institutions all around the world have been especially sensible to the idea that cholesterol and saturated fat are absolutely bad, even if we know now that it's probably not the case. I guess they kept it politically correct in the Abstract to save face, even though their study says the opposite. Now it should be noted, as others' have, that it's just a n=22 study. Full paper available for free here : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10055576/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10055576/

202 points by mrleinad 3y ago

Interesting. Note this has not yet been peer-reviewed, so findings must be taken with an especially large pinch of salt even compared to your average paper. In this case, they only looked at 20 adults over 2 weeks, so I feel that any conclusions drawn here are circumstancial at best. Apparently the reseach was funded by NIH and therefore at least partly the taxpayer. Seems like a bit of a strange study to fund, in my opinion nothing useful can possibly result from such a tiny study. I tried tracking down the specific grant they were given (they mention NIH award UL1 TR-002378 in the disclosure section of the paper but I can't find anything from that)

kevviiinn 3y ago
Most grants fund large projects out of which smaller papers are written. I don't think any grant is funding individual papers like you seem to imply
peebz 3y ago
Don't go too heavy on the salt.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  I suppose without further research we won't have any clue what effect salt will or won't have on my emotional state ;) But seriously, there is pretty much no point discussing the conclusions of such a deeply flawed paper.
c_elegant 3y ago
> Some limitations to this study beyond the subjective nature of the term “mood,” are compliance with following the study protocol, lack of exact control over the first and final diets, and uBiome’s bankruptcy that limited sample size further than expected. This is what you're looking for: it's a pilot study seeded by now-disgraced/bankrupt uBiome.
- salamanderman 3y ago
  This should be the top comment.
robwwilliams 3y ago
Absolutely right. This is not even a proper pilot study.
eyeundersand 3y ago
This was going to be my comment too. N = 20 is atrocious and that too only over 2 weeks. Think any significant, measurable changes to mental health outcomes would probably take a lot longer than that to manifest. I further find results from any kind of "food recall" surveys (or just surveys in general) hard to believe. Stated vs. revealed preferences/outcomes should be a bigger debate imo.
- mtrpcic 3y ago
  Any major changes to gut biome will definitely take more than two weeks. Anyone who has ever had to do an elimination diet will tell you that it can take 4 to 6 weeks for things to normalize when making dietary changes.

r_singh 3y ago

Has anyone researched the opposite? Like the role of mood and happiness on the gut microbiome. I was diagnosed with Celiac 5 years ago, could never gain weight and had my share of struggles with anxiety etc. I recently found a counsellor who told me to stop overthinking, seeking knowledge and a few other things which after following I gained 5 kilos and became a happier person. I always thought my gut was to blame but a few simple practices seem to be fixing my gut too.

electric_mayhem 3y ago
Can you clarify on “seeking knowledge”? Is this something you were supposed to stop along with overthinking, or things you were supposed to learn that would help- if the latter, what were those bits of knowledge? And elaborate, specifically, on “a few other things”?
- r_singh 3y ago
  With respect to these things he advised me to Slow down - deep breath and chant om daily Seek only that knowledge which helps me in my field of work Think only the amount that helps me propel towards acting on the next step
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
PragmaticPulp 3y ago
The connection is bidirectional, yes. Mental health issues have been associated with changes in appetite. It’s a simpler relation, though, and is more a function of hormones and nervous system activity than microbiome.
Llamamoe 3y ago
> [...] told me to stop overthinking, seeking knowledge and a few other [...] That's something people are always telling you, might as well have been chance that things improved and you've linked it with life events, as humans do- we're a storytelling species, we always seek to explain things in our lives through the prism of our decisions and thoughts.

amanaplanacanal 3y ago

This doesn’t seem to be worded very well: > greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression Carbohydrate was positively correlated, and fat was negatively correlated with anxiety and depression.

samstave 3y ago
Your brain needs fats. Your muscles need carbs. You need to exercise both. Ill never forget the comment of my grandmother, a life-long surgical nurse to one of the top neurosurgeons in California. - My daughter was opening the fridge and eating handfuls of butter when she was tall enough to do so (abt 3 years old) I called my grandmother and asked her about this She said to me : "let her do it, the brain needs fats to grow" my daughter is smart as heck. She is 18 now and is wicked smart. -- Also we benefit from the Norwegian gut biom... we can handle any lactose. I think that gut biome transfers are actually a new genre of biomedical science... (recall the ulcer guy? he proved that ulcers were a bad bacteria.) I really think that we should pursue gut biome treatments
- thisisbrians 3y ago
  The body can make carbs from proteins or fats. You don't _need_ dietary carbs (but will naturally get some in the course of eating a healthy diet).
- fnord77 3y ago
  The consumption of a carbohydrate-rich, protein-poor meal or snack can increase the synthesis of the brain neurotransmitter serotonin; proteins block this effect.
- kulahan 3y ago
  I think science is moving in this direction, but it's taking time. I've seen arguments in favor of fecal infusions (where they take fecal matter from someone with a healthy gut microbiome to someone with an unhealthy one). It has shown some promise in helping some rather stubborn illnesses. But still, these things take a long time.

runlaszlorun 3y ago

I’ll confess that I’ve only read the abstract, but was totally confused by this apparent contradiction… > We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression vs > We have shown that changing diet affects mood and happiness, that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression The first says fat reduces anxiety and depression. The second seems to imply it reduces it- unless “directly associated” actually means “negatively correlated”?? Also, are they saying that increased fiber reduces gut biome diversity? -edited for typo-

twobitshifter 3y ago
I guess directly associated doesn’t indicate the direction of the correlation. The paper could use another round of edits, there are several confusing phrases.
dave84 3y ago
The word ‘and’ appears to be important here. Fat and protein. Fat and carbohydrate.
kelipso 3y ago
Looks like they didn't find significant effects when you eat fat, carb, protein independently (maybe they didn't look at it independently, idk). But if you eat fat along with protein, or if you eat fat along with carb, they find significant effects.

nimbius 3y ago

I believe the study is onto something pretty conclusive. Speaking anecdotally, ive never eaten anything from Chipotle that didnt leave me with a haunting sensation of fear and remorse.

JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
Chipotlaway can take care of the bloodstains, if not the fear and remorse.

blakesterz 3y ago

"After the diet change, we observed significant changes in measures of anxiety, well-being and happiness, and without changes in gut microbiome diversity. We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression, while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression." I think most of us would agree that makes sense? Eat like crap, feel like crap? "We also found strong negative correlations between total calories and total fiber intake with gut microbiome diversity without correlations to measures of mental health, mood or happiness.... inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity." I kept reading this second paragraph trying to understand the "without correlations" part. And also the negative correlations part. And then the full-text has this, which helped I think: "Furthermore, total calories and fiber had a negative correlation with gut microbiome diversity, and anxiety and depression decrease as the gut diversity increases."

hinkley 3y ago
Fiber reducing biodiversity would be news. I thought consensus was the other way around?
- MavropaliasG 3y ago
  That's the kind of garbage results you get when you run a study with only 20 participants. Also they changed to both mediterranean and ketogenic? Wtf
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  Yeah, I thought fiber is literally food for gut microbes. WTF?
- goda90 3y ago
  I wonder if it's a case of soluble vs insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber is often described as speeding up transit through the intestines, which might leave microbes less food to eat, or increase the microbes being driven out before they can establish.

Llamamoe 3y ago

I recommend this overview of effect of human diet on the gut microbiome: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950569/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950569/?report... Tl;dr is that while the gut microbiome varies by diet, it's largely stable after around 3 years of age, and even extreme dietary changes only result in impermanent shifts in relative abundances and function of your bacteria.

volleygman180 3y ago

I'm glad to see more studies on this, as it's long been misunderstood how strong of a connection there is between the gut microbiome and mental health. Some go as far to referring to the gut as our second-brain, due to its critical role. Serotonin (the moood-regulating neurotransmitter), for instance, is produced _primarily_ in the gut (up to 95% of it). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469458/#:~:text=The%20gut%20provides%20approximately%2095,to%20the%20central%20nerve%20system https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469458/#:~:tex....

runlaszlorun 3y ago
That serotonin study was an eye opener for me. As a non-professional it sure seems like we have only half a clue how the body works.
southwesterly 3y ago
That’s really interesting and helps explain all sorts of things in my life. Thanks for the link.
robwwilliams 3y ago
But unfortunately a great deal if hype. And junk science like this work.

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago

Since this study only explored a 2 week change, does anyone have any info on more permanent changes? I’m uninterested in temporarily having less anxiety for 2 weeks. I would like to know what’s my anxiety after 2 years!

blastro 3y ago

I sleep much better after eating basic food that my microbiome seems to enjoy: white rice.

TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
heavy metals in rice https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7663342/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7663342/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34073642/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34073642/
- blastro 3y ago
  thanks for that, I buy organic white rice from california which appears to be the least bad origin in those papers
pazimzadeh 3y ago
White rice lacks Vitamin B https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/eating-way-too-much-rice-almost-doomed-japans-imperial-navy-59542 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/eating-way-too-much-r...

aszantu 3y ago

that's literally me... I've observed that it takes about 4 days between carb consumption and mental breakdown. Also before the mental breakdown appears, the smell changes from nice to sour. The sour smell seems to be connected to high stress, it's really hard to remove from clothes.

coding123 3y ago

My wife has to eat protein (in her case meat) with carbs. If she eats carbs with no protein she has anxiety. It's so awesome that we are finally studying things like this.

DrThunder 3y ago
I'm the same. I assume it's spiking my glucose levels too much when I don't include protein. She may have a bit of reactive hypoglycemia going on. Wonky sugar spikes can really mess with people mentally.
jononomo 3y ago
I have eliminated all plants from my diet, and it is indescribable how positively it affects your mental and physical health. It is like accessing an entirely new dimension of well-being. You can't even imagine how good it is possible to feel until you've ditched all plant-based calories.
- hirvi74 3y ago
  How affordable are such changes for the average person? It seems like a carnivorous diet would be significantly more expensive than alternatives.
  - jononomo 3y ago
    Well, you save money by not buying anything other than beef, and you save money by eliminating all chronic diseases from your life. Also, you save ridiculous amounts of time grocery shopping and cooking. You also spend about 80% less time in the bathroom. If I were to buy two ribeye steaks per day from Wegman's, that would run about $30. You could probably get them cheaper at Costco. If you go for just eggs and ground beef, then you could eat for $10/day, probably.
    - coding123 3y ago
      On the other hand, I purchase pretty much just organic chicken. Breasts these days are like $17 if I get a little more than a pound in CA. Saving money on things like thighs and drumsticks though.

xapata 3y ago

N = 20. Sounds like p-hacking to me.

SCAQTony 3y ago

I was disappointed how vague carbs were defined, but I suspect we can all agree the best diet for an omnivore is the least processed food is the best choice. Anything that comes in a box or can should be suspect. Soup is best when the broth is made from leftover chicken bones and the rest of it with chicken meat and raw veggies. Fruit is better than candy, fish is better than bacon. YMMV

feoren 3y ago
> I suspect we can all agree the best diet for an omnivore is the least processed food is the best choice Given that nobody can even define what "processed food" means: no, no we cannot all agree on that. It's an utterly meaningless term.

orzig 3y ago

Look at the plots, there is one huge outlier in the small number of overall samples which is driving a lot of the results. I don’t even disagree with the conclusions, but this is not strong evidence for it.

algoatecorn 3y ago

Last year, I started an experiment with my diet. It started with the idea of eating as cheaply as possible with nutrient dense foods, but I started off with an elimination diet. I chose 2-3 "meals" that I could easily prep and only cost $2-4 each. Mostly eggs, ground beef, white rice, potatoes. I quickly added bell peppers and onions. I tracked macros, and filled in the micros with new additions. Calories as well of course. The result was fantastic. 1. I got really fast at cooking, and even now that I cook more complex meals, I'm much faster than before. Probably because I introduced new ingredients gradually and maintained efficiency in the kitchen. 2. My ability to eyeball macros on a plate is pretty good now. It's much easier to regulate my energy levels because of this. I can also guess my bodyweight within ~5lbs before checking the scale. 3. I figured out what I digest most easily. As an athlete, I can't really afford to have days where I'm "bathroom dependent". The consistency in all these aspects has greatly improved my life. If you want to get better at cooking, understand your body better, save time, and eat a healthier diet, this method might work well for you. Disclaimer: after the first 2-3 weeks, I switched from 100% compliance to ~80% compliance. That way I get the benefits of regimented eating without going crazy. Even if you eat healthy, it's not good to obsess over calories and food options.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> I chose 2-3 "meals" that I could easily prep and only cost $2-4 each. Mostly eggs, ground beef, white rice, potatoes. I quickly added bell peppers and onions I do this for home lunches. The gustatory and health benefits of a varied diet are too much to ignore. But the efficiency gains, and comfort in the familiar, are also appealing. So one of eggs or salmon; brown rice or farro; and combinations of bell peppers, alliums (usually onions, scallions and garlic), cherry tomatoes and any other junk I have in the vegetable drawer. Bonus points for cooked in a wok, because cook time is like thirty seconds and you keep crisp yet still sweetened veggies. > figured out what I digest most easily. As an athlete, I can't really afford to have days where I'm "bathroom dependent" Would note that most of our guts are super adaptable. Avoiding foods that upset your stomach is reasonable. But doing this too much can sensitize the gut.
reubenswartz 3y ago
I make a salad most days for lunch. Some variation in ingredients, but I can have a healthy meal in < 5 minutes that I actually crave and I have good energy through out the afternoon. If you had told me when I was younger that I do this and it's not a punishment, I would not have believed you, but highly recommend.

DrThunder 3y ago

Does this mean the all knowing FDA is wrong? They told me Frosted mini-wheats, Lucky Charms, cheerios are better than ground beef, cheddar, eggs, and butter.

mrinterweb 3y ago

> For this pilot study, we enrolled 20 adults to follow this protocol Is that even a large enough of a sample size to draw a conclusion from? Probably a big enough sample size to get funding for a larger study, but not big enough to draw general conclusions from.

robwwilliams 3y ago
No, not at all.

jononomo 3y ago

"We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression."

jononomo 3y ago

Dr. Georgia Ede, a Harvard psychiatrist, has found that eliminating plants entirely from your diet leads to phenomenal mental health outcomes. Her findings jive well with the results reported in this paper. Her website is https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/ https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/

pazimzadeh 3y ago
I don't see how that jives with the paper, given that at follow-up, almost half of the people were on a vegetarian diet. It looks like she only has one paper on PubMed, where she is listed as "Independent Researcher." The paper makes no mentions of plants: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35873236/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35873236/. She does mention the SMILES trial, but that states the opposite: https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-017-0791-y https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291... the available evidence from observational studies suggests that diets higher in plant foods, such as vegetables, fruits, legumes and whole grains, and lean proteins, including fish, are associated with a reduced risk for depression and ModiMedDiet diet: The primary focus was on increasing diet quality by supporting the consumption of the following 12 key food groups (recommended servings in brackets): whole grains (5–8 servings per day); vegetables (6 per day); fruit (3 per day), legumes (3–4 per week); low-fat and unsweetened dairy foods (2–3 per day); raw and unsalted nuts (1 per day); fish (at least 2 per week); lean red meats (3–4 per week) [32], chicken (2–3 per week); eggs (up to 6 per week); and olive oil (3 tablespoons per day), whilst reducing intake of ‘extras’ foods, such as sweets, refined cereals, fried food, fast-food, processed meats and sugary drinks (no more than 3 per week). Red or white wine consumption beyond 2 standard drinks per day and all other alcohol (e.g. spirits, beer) were included within the ‘extras’ food group. Individuals were advised to select red wine preferably and only drink with meals. The dietary composition of the ModiMedDiet was as follows: protein 18% of total energy (E); fat 40% of E; carbohydrates 37% of E; alcohol 2% of E; fibre/other 3% of E. Note that we don't directly get energy from most fibers, so 3% energy does not mean 3% of the volume of food. Getting rid of plant/fiber from your diet is probably a terrible idea, unless you have a specific reason to do so. That's because if you don't give your microbiota something to eat, then it will eat you (starting with your mucus). A dietary fiber-deprived gut microbiota degrades the colonic mucus barrier and enhances pathogen susceptibility https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131798/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131798/ Bifidobacteria or Fiber Protects against Diet-Induced Microbiota-Mediated Colonic Mucus Deterioration https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312817304985 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S193131281... In people who have trouble digesting plants, they may have already lost the part of their microbiota which would digest the plants. So when re-introducing plants into your diet, you should do it gradually so that it doesn't overload your biota.

Balooga 3y ago

I lost about 70lbs in about 10 months by cutting out processed foods, cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit. And by not juicing, and not drinking smoothies. I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. I didn't try to reduce the amount of calories I was eating, just change where those calories were coming from. Weight went poof. Energy went way up and my mood improved.

feoren 3y ago
> cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit This is great advice for most people, depending on what "whole" means. Am I allowed to cut and cook my vegetables? Stick them in a food processor? Are they still "whole" then? I've never understood why people even bother to throw this word "whole" into anything. You just mean you didn't drink smoothies and concentrated fruit juice? > cutting out processed foods This is utterly meaningless bullshit. > I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. This may be the main reason you lost weight and feel better. If nothing else, it may be the reason you were able to stick to your dietary changes. I think everyone I know who lost a significant amount of weight was into strength training while they did it.
- codyb 3y ago
  Whole foods is just a common way to say you're buying ingredients then making them yourself. I think you're just arguing semantics for meanings that are fairly commonly used.
- smolder 3y ago
  Processed foods are a vaguely defined and somewhat arbitrary category of foods, but that does not mean the correlation between foods being highly processed and unhealthy is BS. Things that have ingredients like brominated vegetable oil or various other preservatives and stabilizers for texture and shelf life, artificial colors and lots of HFCS, meat slurries that have been pumped through tubes and formed into precise shapes, the "simulated yogurt" that wrapped the raisins in my trail mix... None of that stuff is a favor to your health. Food optimized for mass market scale and profitability is practically never optimized for nutritional value, except as a hollow gimmick, e.g. Vitamin Water.

robwwilliams 3y ago

Interesting general topic but this is a tiny short term unreviewed study that is getting way more attention than deserved. Twenty subjects over a few week is not a serious effort.

fnord77 3y ago

n = 20

charlysisto 3y ago

I don't know much about the gut microbiome, but it is pretty well established now that the ketones produced by fasting (or diet mimicking it like keto) have a powerful effect on the brain : as an alternative to glucose for fuelling neurone, and a signaling molecule to mitochondria for mitophagy (the cleaning up of the damaged ones) and mitogenesis. These processes can reactivate and repair group of neurones compromised by oxydative stress or insuline resistance and thus heal the mind. See Chris Palmer book : "Brain Energy" or Bikman's : "What makes Us Sick" or Gundry the "Keto Code"... All saying the same thing although with different perspectives. Yes the Brain is just another organ and we're starting to discover ways to trigger self healing processes which can leverage and/or take over the common chemical oriented cures mimicking neurotransmitters... It started 100 years ago at the Mayo clinic were they cured epileptic children with strict keto diet. Quit fascinating !

sofaygo 3y ago

Anecdotally, I agree with the conclusions the researchers propose. From an academic perspective, this study is poorly done, with an abstract that fails to fully encapsulate their findings. While this is a topic that is very important and deserves the attention,people shouldn’t be mislead into taking this paper at face value.

DoreenMichele 3y ago

Some outtakes: Bacteroides is predominant in people eating large amounts of protein (e.g. Western diet) Human studies have shown an increase in gut bacterial translocation in mood disorders.6,7 For example, in major depressive disorder there are significant increases in Bacteroidetes, Proteobacteria, and Actinobacteria and decreases in Firmicutes compared to controls. The benefits of ketogenic diets for controlling severe epilepsy may be mediated by the gut microbiome, as the effects can be reproduced in animal models by direct manipulation of gut bacterial enterotypes without changing diet.

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago

Last year, I went on a diet of only strawberry flavored candy peeps. I lost 50 lbs, my skin cleared up, and I feel like I have more energy. Clearly an all candy diet is something we need more research on, as it seems the status quo is to undersell the advantages of this high sucrose diet. Disclaimer: I now have Type 2 diabetes.

d23 3y ago

> We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression > We have shown that changing diet affects mood and happiness, that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression What?

GuB-42 3y ago

The introduction seems to be contradicting itself > We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression > greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression So? Is fat good or bad? (apparently, from the rest of the article, it is good)

mattskr 3y ago
From what I gather, it means the combination of high fat, high protein and low carb leads to lower anxiety. The combination of high fat, high carb and low protein leads to higher anxiety.
lcedp 3y ago
Perhaps, in the second sentence, they meant total calories. More fat with protein is good, more fat with carbs - bad. According to this paper. But, yes, the abstract section could be greatly improved.

tulio_ribeiro 3y ago

I've read some studies that suggest that the gut microbiome can influence mood and behavior through the vagus nerve, which connects the gut and the brain. For example, this[1] study showed that mice fed with a probiotic bacteria had lower depressive and anxious behaviors than mice whose vagus nerve was cut. Another study[2] showed that oral treatment with antidepressants altered the gut microbiome and increased vagal activity in rats, and that blocking the vagus nerve abolished the antidepressive effects. These studies imply that the gut-brain axis is more complex than just diet and microbiome diversity. Maybe there are other factors that mediate the effects of fat, protein and carbohydrates on mood and mental health. What do you think? [1] https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/how-gut-microbes-talk-to-the-vagus-nerve-e478ff7cf06 https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/how-gut-microbes-talk... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-50807-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-50807-8

keyle 3y ago

"... we enrolled 20 adults" ... for 2 weeks? Is that really all it takes to produce a study now?

Beaver117 3y ago

I'm so disappointed at the state of HN. Instead of good faith discussion we have a bunch of keto anti-carb people pushing their narrative. Did you forget that a large number of people are Asian, eat large servings of carbs (rice) every day and live longer and are healthier overall than western people? Wasn't the standard bodybuilder diet chicken, rice, and broccoli? All of a sudden carbs are now "crap" and everyone tries to be in ketosis 24/7.

jaredhallen 3y ago

> We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression... > ...that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression and inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity. So which is it when it comes to fat? My experience says fat and fiber make me feel good. Carbohydrates bad. Protein, neither good nor bad.

saurik 3y ago
I didn't see how to get the actual paper off this website. I got it off of ResearchGate, though. Maybe this inconsistency can be figured out there (I ran out of the time I was able to allocate towards figuring this out just now). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369458140_The_Role_of_Diet_on_the_Gut_Microbiome_Mood_and_Happiness https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369458140_The_Role_...
syl_sau 3y ago
The last paragraph of the Discussion section makes it clear that fat on its own isn't to blame: > This pilot study examined correlations between diet composition, mental health, mood and happiness, and the gut microbiome to find that fat and protein reduce anxiety and depression while carbohydrates have the opposite effect. As I'm understanding it, this is funded by a public health institution in the USA. Health institutions all around the world have been especially sensible to the idea that cholesterol and saturated fat are absolutely bad, even if we know now that it's probably not the case. I guess they kept it politically correct in the Abstract to save face, even though their study says the opposite. Now it should be noted, as others' have, that it's just a n=22 study. Full paper available for free here : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10055576/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10055576/