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No, it's not. Immigration is 'easy' as it avoids making the changes to adapt to stagnant/decreasing population, but those changes will have to made one day beca

No, it's not. Immigration is 'easy' as it avoids making the changes to adapt to stagnant/decreasing population, but those changes will have to made one day because population cannot keep growing indefinitely, so it's just kicking the can down the road. On the other hand, high immigration creates many social issues. Frankly the debate has been poisoned by ideology and political agendas to the point people actually believe that there is no choice. But, really it has not been going well at all for the social and cultural fabric of European countries and just stating that means risking being labelled whatever nasty term you can think of.

epolanski 4y ago
I think it is you stating ideologically poisoned opinions. Regular (even ignoring irregular) immigration contributes for 10% of the GDP in Italy alone. All stats clearly show how regular (and even irregular) immigration is a high benefit to European countries. I'm Italian and I can guarantee you that many sectors of our economy would be dead without immigrants, especially our precious food industry. Immigrants pay taxes here, produce goods here, consume here, but they get little out of it as they are neither schooled nor retire here. See, e.g. key findings here: https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/library-document/projecting-net-fiscal-impact-immigration-eu_en https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/library-document/pr... The other part of your comment is similarly loaded. Yes, it happens that immigration may lead to social tensions. That's very true. But the experience differs wildly and real stats have to be taken into account. E.g. In Germany crime is at all times low after having taken more than 2 million refugees and regular/irregular immigrants in a decade. They have been absolutely core to German growth and I am hardly pressed to state that taking so many immigrants has been anything but a net positive.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  > Regular (even ignoring irregular) immigration contributes for 10% of the GDP in Italy alone. I haven't denied that. But that's not the point, which you are ignoring. In fact your reply illustrate my previous comment that immigration is the easy option for industry, but it is not sustainable. > I think it is you stating ideologically poisoned opinions QED. Have a nice day.
- finikytou 4y ago
  in many european countries 40-50% of this immigration is unemployed. that's not a net positive. immigration was a positive when unemployment wasn't high and cost of life wasnt that crazy high in western europe.it was also a time where western europe had industries and blue collar jobs. those jobs are gone and bringing millions of people from poor countries w/ low education background will only bring false hopes to those people.the past 20 years did not require mass immigration. and for germany crimes can you break it down into the type of crimes so that we see that your stat doesn't hold? best look at countries that had mass immigration for long like sweden. how is it going crime wise? has for industries that thrived thanks to immigration. I know the nice NYT story about parmagienno saved thanks to hard working immigrants. Why not? but most of the time industries that struggle to hire native are paying salaries that wouldn't allow natives to raise a family while allowing immigrants to buy a house at home in a few years. this is why they favor mass immigration so that they can keep the salaries low. we saw with covid and the stop of immigration that salaries in UK for truck drivers went up for instance. its offer and demand 101
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >Immigrants pay taxes here, produce goods here, consume here, but they get little out of it as they are neither schooled nor retire here. Those aren't immigrants. Those are "guest workers", or expats. Immigrants are people who move to a new country permanently.

epolanski 4y ago

I think it is you stating ideologically poisoned opinions. Regular (even ignoring irregular) immigration contributes for 10% of the GDP in Italy alone. All stats clearly show how regular (and even irregular) immigration is a high benefit to European countries. I'm Italian and I can guarantee you that many sectors of our economy would be dead without immigrants, especially our precious food industry. Immigrants pay taxes here, produce goods here, consume here, but they get little out of it as they are neither schooled nor retire here. See, e.g. key findings here: https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/library-document/projecting-net-fiscal-impact-immigration-eu_en https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/library-document/pr... The other part of your comment is similarly loaded. Yes, it happens that immigration may lead to social tensions. That's very true. But the experience differs wildly and real stats have to be taken into account. E.g. In Germany crime is at all times low after having taken more than 2 million refugees and regular/irregular immigrants in a decade. They have been absolutely core to German growth and I am hardly pressed to state that taking so many immigrants has been anything but a net positive.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
> Regular (even ignoring irregular) immigration contributes for 10% of the GDP in Italy alone. I haven't denied that. But that's not the point, which you are ignoring. In fact your reply illustrate my previous comment that immigration is the easy option for industry, but it is not sustainable. > I think it is you stating ideologically poisoned opinions QED. Have a nice day.
finikytou 4y ago
in many european countries 40-50% of this immigration is unemployed. that's not a net positive. immigration was a positive when unemployment wasn't high and cost of life wasnt that crazy high in western europe.it was also a time where western europe had industries and blue collar jobs. those jobs are gone and bringing millions of people from poor countries w/ low education background will only bring false hopes to those people.the past 20 years did not require mass immigration. and for germany crimes can you break it down into the type of crimes so that we see that your stat doesn't hold? best look at countries that had mass immigration for long like sweden. how is it going crime wise? has for industries that thrived thanks to immigration. I know the nice NYT story about parmagienno saved thanks to hard working immigrants. Why not? but most of the time industries that struggle to hire native are paying salaries that wouldn't allow natives to raise a family while allowing immigrants to buy a house at home in a few years. this is why they favor mass immigration so that they can keep the salaries low. we saw with covid and the stop of immigration that salaries in UK for truck drivers went up for instance. its offer and demand 101
midoridensha 4y ago
>Immigrants pay taxes here, produce goods here, consume here, but they get little out of it as they are neither schooled nor retire here. Those aren't immigrants. Those are "guest workers", or expats. Immigrants are people who move to a new country permanently.