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Proactively stating that nobody is willing to discuss things and will flag you for saying your opinion is just the weak version of flagging things when you don’

Proactively stating that nobody is willing to discuss things and will flag you for saying your opinion is just the weak version of flagging things when you don’t have the majority opinion to actually make it happen. Yeah no shit you’re going to get downvotes. This post does not read as asking for mutual empathy. It reads as bashing the other side and proactively claiming to be a victim if they dare to do the same to you, which they ought to, because this post does not contribute to the topic as you observe. I think you’re wrong about people’s willingness to discuss, but even if you were correct, this is not a helpful post.

logicalmonster 3y ago
I didn't say that nobody is willing to discuss things. I said that comments outside of a certain narrow range of acceptable opinion get shut down.
- fauxpause_ 3y ago
  That simply isn’t true.
  - logicalmonster 3y ago
    I guess I'm wrong then. Apologies. Who am I to argue with whatever you decide is objective truth. > "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command... and if all others accepted the lie, which the party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth"
    - fauxpause_ 3y ago
      You assert A. I assert not A. You end up playing the victim again. And for bonus points, accuse me of claiming objective truth with no grounding and then post a quote which strongly implies the views contrary to yours are orchestrated lies. This is not a good faith post. It should be downvoted.
      - Chris2048 3y ago
        Aren't you playing the victim also then?
        fauxpause_ 3y ago
        No? When I said this post I meant OP if not clear
  - stametseater 3y ago
    Then it should be safe for me to say that I've noticed transmen are less assertive and aggressive than transwomen, and that this tracks with all the research, including crime statistics, showing that human males are more aggressive than human females.
    - fauxpause_ 3y ago
      Seems unlikely to me that you’ve personally spent enough time with transgender people and with a large enough sample to justify having an opinion that generalizes across them if you’re so eager to share this opinion. Are you making a good faith comment?
      - stametseater 3y ago
        > Are you making a good faith comment? You have posed this as a question. My answer is yes. But perhaps you don't really mean it as a question, and instead mean it to solicit others to flag my comment to silence my point of view. Is that the case? If so, then logicalmonster was right. I have spent the past 15 years working in tech in an American west coast city, I have personally known several transgender people in professional and social contexts, and encountered many more. I have also known or encountered innumerable cisgendered men and women. From these experiences, I have concluded that cisgender men are more dangerous than cisgender women, more quick to anger, more prone to aggressive posturing and certainly more prone to physical assault. Do you doubt these observations as well? Will you allow me the ability to conclude anything from my personal experiences, or do you demand that I perform rigorous scientific studies to conclude anything of this sort? I am telling you, in good faith, that it has been my personal observation that I should be wary of cisgendered men and transwomen. Because although both are usually not violent, both exhibit a predilection for aggression that significantly exceeds what I have come to expect from cisgendered women and transmen.
        fauxpause_ 3y ago
        I’m asking if it’s good faith because it feels like it cannot possibly be. You can have any opinion you like, but it’s kind of pointless to think that your small experiences are sufficient to generalize. on top of that, I feel like you’re probably just making up your anecdata or exaggerating the size of it to justify your desire to state an opinion you know other people will not like. I don’t really care what your opinion is either way. But your experiences are about as valuable as my grandparents’ experience with “the Blacks”. No, you don’t need to conduct a study to state your opinions. But at the same time, your opinion is meaningless, and it’s not “silencing conversation” to acknowledge that and end the discussion there. But let’s have it anyway. I don’t have any opinion on whether transwomen are more aggressive than cisgendered women. If I had to guess, yeah, they probably are? Why does that matter?
  - genaavrfshpxbss 3y ago
    [flagged]
Chris2048 3y ago
> is just the weak version of flagging things so weak, in fact, as to be entirely different - the most relevant thing being that flagged comments are killed. Also, this is a very uncharitable take - It might be a tactic used when "you don’t have the majority opinion to actually make it happen" but that's not always the case, plus the mechanism of becoming the majority, comment wise, requires comments not to be killed i.e. it's possible it is the majority opinion, just unspoken b/c of aggressive downvoters. > It reads as bashing the other side and proactively claiming to be a victim if they dare to do the same to you but flagging isn't "bashing", that's the point.
- fauxpause_ 3y ago
  I disagree with pretty much all of that.
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    Why join a discussion to state your opinion without expanding on it? Whether it be "that's not true" or "I disagree"?

logicalmonster 3y ago

I didn't say that nobody is willing to discuss things. I said that comments outside of a certain narrow range of acceptable opinion get shut down.

fauxpause_ 3y ago
That simply isn’t true.
- logicalmonster 3y ago
  I guess I'm wrong then. Apologies. Who am I to argue with whatever you decide is objective truth. > "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command... and if all others accepted the lie, which the party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth"
  - fauxpause_ 3y ago
    You assert A. I assert not A. You end up playing the victim again. And for bonus points, accuse me of claiming objective truth with no grounding and then post a quote which strongly implies the views contrary to yours are orchestrated lies. This is not a good faith post. It should be downvoted.
    - Chris2048 3y ago
      Aren't you playing the victim also then?
      - fauxpause_ 3y ago
        No? When I said this post I meant OP if not clear
- stametseater 3y ago
  Then it should be safe for me to say that I've noticed transmen are less assertive and aggressive than transwomen, and that this tracks with all the research, including crime statistics, showing that human males are more aggressive than human females.
  - fauxpause_ 3y ago
    Seems unlikely to me that you’ve personally spent enough time with transgender people and with a large enough sample to justify having an opinion that generalizes across them if you’re so eager to share this opinion. Are you making a good faith comment?
    - stametseater 3y ago
      > Are you making a good faith comment? You have posed this as a question. My answer is yes. But perhaps you don't really mean it as a question, and instead mean it to solicit others to flag my comment to silence my point of view. Is that the case? If so, then logicalmonster was right. I have spent the past 15 years working in tech in an American west coast city, I have personally known several transgender people in professional and social contexts, and encountered many more. I have also known or encountered innumerable cisgendered men and women. From these experiences, I have concluded that cisgender men are more dangerous than cisgender women, more quick to anger, more prone to aggressive posturing and certainly more prone to physical assault. Do you doubt these observations as well? Will you allow me the ability to conclude anything from my personal experiences, or do you demand that I perform rigorous scientific studies to conclude anything of this sort? I am telling you, in good faith, that it has been my personal observation that I should be wary of cisgendered men and transwomen. Because although both are usually not violent, both exhibit a predilection for aggression that significantly exceeds what I have come to expect from cisgendered women and transmen.
      - fauxpause_ 3y ago
        I’m asking if it’s good faith because it feels like it cannot possibly be. You can have any opinion you like, but it’s kind of pointless to think that your small experiences are sufficient to generalize. on top of that, I feel like you’re probably just making up your anecdata or exaggerating the size of it to justify your desire to state an opinion you know other people will not like. I don’t really care what your opinion is either way. But your experiences are about as valuable as my grandparents’ experience with “the Blacks”. No, you don’t need to conduct a study to state your opinions. But at the same time, your opinion is meaningless, and it’s not “silencing conversation” to acknowledge that and end the discussion there. But let’s have it anyway. I don’t have any opinion on whether transwomen are more aggressive than cisgendered women. If I had to guess, yeah, they probably are? Why does that matter?
- genaavrfshpxbss 3y ago
  [flagged]

Chris2048 3y ago

> is just the weak version of flagging things so weak, in fact, as to be entirely different - the most relevant thing being that flagged comments are killed. Also, this is a very uncharitable take - It might be a tactic used when "you don’t have the majority opinion to actually make it happen" but that's not always the case, plus the mechanism of becoming the majority, comment wise, requires comments not to be killed i.e. it's possible it is the majority opinion, just unspoken b/c of aggressive downvoters. > It reads as bashing the other side and proactively claiming to be a victim if they dare to do the same to you but flagging isn't "bashing", that's the point.

fauxpause_ 3y ago
I disagree with pretty much all of that.
- Chris2048 3y ago
  Why join a discussion to state your opinion without expanding on it? Whether it be "that's not true" or "I disagree"?