6 ms·

It's pretty strange that the CMA is most concerned with a market that functionally doesn't exist right now, and may not ever be "a thing". Cloud gaming is still

It's pretty strange that the CMA is most concerned with a market that functionally doesn't exist right now, and may not ever be "a thing". Cloud gaming is still fundamentally not a great experience. Having said that, I don't think the deal should go through anyway. Large companies should not be allowed to purchase other large companies within the same market as them.

dagw 3y ago
Cloud gaming is still fundamentally not a great experience. Personally I disagree. Cloud gaming on Game Pass is a fantastic deal and quite frankly the Xbox's killer feature
- schnitzelstoat 3y ago
  Who buys a state of the art console to use it for cloud gaming though?
  - rjh29 3y ago
    I agree it's not the xbox killer feature, but you can stream new games on your old PC or non-gaming laptop.
    - circuit10 3y ago
      Or a Nintendo Switch if you have an older hackable one and you install Android on it
      - dagw 3y ago
        You can buy a new Xbox S with a controller for like $300, which is quite frankly cheaper and easier than just about any other hackable option.
        circuit10 3y ago
        But I already have a Switch, if I wanted to play non-portability I’d use my PC, but it’s often way more convenient to use it on a portable device
- dm_me_dogs 3y ago
  I have used it on my Series X and it's just not as good as playing it locally. I've got it hooked up to a 4K120Hz TV that supports VRR and ALLM, and the exeprience over the cloud will never be as good. It's very convenient that I don't have to download 50GB to play a game, but if it's a game I want to actually play, the 50GB is worth it. I also have a PS5 with the PS+ Premium package, and their cloud offering is even worse.
  - rjh29 3y ago
    Yeah but people who want 4k120hz etc and play console are an extreme minority.
    - dm_me_dogs 3y ago
      That doesn't mean that playing on the cloud is good though, does it? It's still a subpar experience in terms of reponsiveness and image quality, even on a 60Hz display. It's not my internet connection either, as I have my Series X hooked up with an ethernet cable, and my line is a 500/500 fiber line from Bell, with at most 5ms latency. I should be the ideal customer for cloud gaming, and it's still not good.
      - PretzelPirate 3y ago
        I am in the Midwest and have the opposite experience. Most of the time I can't tell the difference between playing on the cloud vs locally on my Series X. Playing battle toads, forza, spelunky 2, etc... I'll sometimes get visual artifacting. I even played Wo Ling and it felt as good as playing locally. When I stream, it's in my Galaxy Fold 4 so resolution doesn't matter to me on that size screen.
      - plif 3y ago
        My experience is that it's much better than the alternative of games running natively on your phone. I would say better than the switch too in most cases for me (more battery life, shorter load times) though may depend on the game. I also noticed a significant improvement running it on WiFi after I upgraded to a mesh network. I've only tried over cloud a few times, can appreciate connection requirements may very high, but even being able to load it up wirelessly in different parts of the house or backyard is a big plus for me.
creshal 3y ago
> It's pretty strange that the CMA is most concerned with a market that functionally doesn't exist right now, and may not ever be "a thing". Microsoft, Activision, and most competitors who were against the merger want it to be a thing, though. If the entire industry considers this to be an important future market, the CMA would be foolish to ignore that.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  In order for cloud gaming not to be a thing, the following will have to happen: - Residential bandwidth (and to a lesser extent latency) will decrease in the future - It will be cheaper to have hardware at home than in a datacenter - Game console manufacturers will prefer designing, manufacturing, and shipping systems vs data center upgrades - Game companies will prefer allowing end users to own bits vs leasing access a la SaaS - Game companies will prefer targeting custom console architectures vs standardized data center architectures None of these seem plausibly likely.
  - aardvarkr 3y ago
    But you ignore all of the headwinds that it faces. We live in a world where players will shell out big bucks for ultra fast monitors with <1ms lag, where gamers measure their abilities in actions per second, and where first perspective shooters LIKE COD are the most popular games and demand split second reactions. How do you expect them to be ok with >100ms ping and dropped packets? I have google fiber with 4ms ping and I hate the experience when cloud gaming.
    - atraac 3y ago
      > How do you expect them to be ok with >100ms ping and dropped packets? You don't. Cloud gaming is not aimed at those people. People like that, who want to compete at higher levels(that includes me) will not play in cloud competetively. But 99,9% other gamers won't care if the tech gets to sub 100ms delay. That's an insanely big market. You could just run any game you want, without worrying about your PC/console specs, there's huge value in that.
    - 3y ago
nailer 3y ago
I'm a fast twitch FPS person from the nineties so I expect low latency when playing a solo game. I played through Cyberpunk using GFN on a home connection in London (ping was 2, which is faster than my mouse latency) and it was fine. Future is here, it's just unevenly distributed.
MikusR 3y ago
Geforce now ultimate tier has lower latentcy than a local console.
andruby 3y ago
Especially since Google recently pulled the plug on Stadia because there is not enough interest. On the other hand, _Google_ shelving a product is perhaps not as indicative.

dagw 3y ago

Cloud gaming is still fundamentally not a great experience. Personally I disagree. Cloud gaming on Game Pass is a fantastic deal and quite frankly the Xbox's killer feature

schnitzelstoat 3y ago
Who buys a state of the art console to use it for cloud gaming though?
- rjh29 3y ago
  I agree it's not the xbox killer feature, but you can stream new games on your old PC or non-gaming laptop.
  - circuit10 3y ago
    Or a Nintendo Switch if you have an older hackable one and you install Android on it
    - dagw 3y ago
      You can buy a new Xbox S with a controller for like $300, which is quite frankly cheaper and easier than just about any other hackable option.
      - circuit10 3y ago
        But I already have a Switch, if I wanted to play non-portability I’d use my PC, but it’s often way more convenient to use it on a portable device
dm_me_dogs 3y ago
I have used it on my Series X and it's just not as good as playing it locally. I've got it hooked up to a 4K120Hz TV that supports VRR and ALLM, and the exeprience over the cloud will never be as good. It's very convenient that I don't have to download 50GB to play a game, but if it's a game I want to actually play, the 50GB is worth it. I also have a PS5 with the PS+ Premium package, and their cloud offering is even worse.
- rjh29 3y ago
  Yeah but people who want 4k120hz etc and play console are an extreme minority.
  - dm_me_dogs 3y ago
    That doesn't mean that playing on the cloud is good though, does it? It's still a subpar experience in terms of reponsiveness and image quality, even on a 60Hz display. It's not my internet connection either, as I have my Series X hooked up with an ethernet cable, and my line is a 500/500 fiber line from Bell, with at most 5ms latency. I should be the ideal customer for cloud gaming, and it's still not good.
    - PretzelPirate 3y ago
      I am in the Midwest and have the opposite experience. Most of the time I can't tell the difference between playing on the cloud vs locally on my Series X. Playing battle toads, forza, spelunky 2, etc... I'll sometimes get visual artifacting. I even played Wo Ling and it felt as good as playing locally. When I stream, it's in my Galaxy Fold 4 so resolution doesn't matter to me on that size screen.
    - plif 3y ago
      My experience is that it's much better than the alternative of games running natively on your phone. I would say better than the switch too in most cases for me (more battery life, shorter load times) though may depend on the game. I also noticed a significant improvement running it on WiFi after I upgraded to a mesh network. I've only tried over cloud a few times, can appreciate connection requirements may very high, but even being able to load it up wirelessly in different parts of the house or backyard is a big plus for me.

creshal 3y ago

> It's pretty strange that the CMA is most concerned with a market that functionally doesn't exist right now, and may not ever be "a thing". Microsoft, Activision, and most competitors who were against the merger want it to be a thing, though. If the entire industry considers this to be an important future market, the CMA would be foolish to ignore that.

ethbr0 3y ago
In order for cloud gaming not to be a thing, the following will have to happen: - Residential bandwidth (and to a lesser extent latency) will decrease in the future - It will be cheaper to have hardware at home than in a datacenter - Game console manufacturers will prefer designing, manufacturing, and shipping systems vs data center upgrades - Game companies will prefer allowing end users to own bits vs leasing access a la SaaS - Game companies will prefer targeting custom console architectures vs standardized data center architectures None of these seem plausibly likely.
- aardvarkr 3y ago
  But you ignore all of the headwinds that it faces. We live in a world where players will shell out big bucks for ultra fast monitors with <1ms lag, where gamers measure their abilities in actions per second, and where first perspective shooters LIKE COD are the most popular games and demand split second reactions. How do you expect them to be ok with >100ms ping and dropped packets? I have google fiber with 4ms ping and I hate the experience when cloud gaming.
  - atraac 3y ago
    > How do you expect them to be ok with >100ms ping and dropped packets? You don't. Cloud gaming is not aimed at those people. People like that, who want to compete at higher levels(that includes me) will not play in cloud competetively. But 99,9% other gamers won't care if the tech gets to sub 100ms delay. That's an insanely big market. You could just run any game you want, without worrying about your PC/console specs, there's huge value in that.
  - 3y ago

nailer 3y ago

I'm a fast twitch FPS person from the nineties so I expect low latency when playing a solo game. I played through Cyberpunk using GFN on a home connection in London (ping was 2, which is faster than my mouse latency) and it was fine. Future is here, it's just unevenly distributed.

MikusR 3y ago

Geforce now ultimate tier has lower latentcy than a local console.

andruby 3y ago

Especially since Google recently pulled the plug on Stadia because there is not enough interest. On the other hand, _Google_ shelving a product is perhaps not as indicative.