5 ms·
What is the sea?
by bondarchuk 4y ago
What is the sea?
- bad_alloc 4y agoNot usable without desalination and far away from most reactor sites.
- pjc50 4y agoPower plant coolant does not require desalination, but it does obviously require that the plant be built next to the sea. Which works fine for the UK and France but Germany has less coastline and more of it is either national park, tourist destination, or busy port.
- _ph_ 4y agoThe problem of course is the proximity to power consumers or you have to expand the grid. Besides, coastlines are ideal places for wind power generation, which is why the north of Germany has no energy scarcity.
- illiarian 4y ago> The problem of course is the proximity to power consumers or you have to expand the grid. What's your opinion on UK-Morocco powerline then?
- _ph_ 4y agoSounds like a P+R stunt so far to me. But it is doable, there is a working power line from Germany to Norway already. The only question is: is it a good idea to build a direct Morocco-UK power line or would it be more clever to connect Morocco with a shorter line to the central European grid and from there to the UK? Why should they sell to the UK and not central Europe? But power lines can be built, no doubt. But then, as I said, you can as well transport wind energy from the coast to the rest of the country.
- illiarian 4y ago> But it is doable, Funny how for renewables it's "certainly it's doable" and "powerlines can be built", but for nuclear "The problem of course is the proximity to power consumers"
- _ph_ 4y agoYou are twisting my words. It isn't a fundamental problem with nuclear, but with placing the power plants at the coasts. You might have made cooling easier, but increased the demand for the grid. That can be done, but should be mentioned. Especially in the context I wrote, but which you didn't quote, that at coasts there is no scarcity of wind, so it is way easier to build wind power there than nuclear.
- illiarian 4y ago> but with placing the power plants at the coasts. You might have made cooling easier, but increased the demand for the grid How is this any different from offshore wind farms or power lines from Norway to Germany? > it is way easier to build wind power there than nuclear. Why not both?
- bayesian_horse 4y agoBecause nuclear power projects are never finished on time and within budget. Partly for political reasons (as in: People really don't like it), partly because engineers suck at estimating large projects.
- perihelions 4y agoThen why not simply build them on unpopulated coasts in Scandinavia, and run HVDC links under the Baltic? If it's good enough for solar power (not enough sunlight in Europe? Just offshore it to Africa [0]), it's good enough for nuclear fission. Extra plus, it's much closer, and all of the countries involved are low-risk, stable democracies. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35611806 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35611806
- pjc50 4y agoWhile it is not within the remit of the Bundestag to build reactors in Scandinavia, it looks like things might be heading in that direction anyway: https://www.ft.com/content/f55b69a4-ee37-4182-88bb-3a8dec93bf49 https://www.ft.com/content/f55b69a4-ee37-4182-88bb-3a8dec93b... (and of course the last time Germany tried to use Norway to help build a nuclear reactor, the Allies blew it up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_heavy_water_sabotage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_heavy_water_sabotage ) I do think lots of things might be feasible for European energy, but they all cost money, and in the case of Germany the lignite lobby has been far better at not getting shut down by environmentalists despite doing a lot more damage.
- phicoh 4y agoThe obvious thing for Germany was to replace lignite with gas powered plants. Gas plants have to advantage that they are very compatible electricity from sun and wind. And even without that directly reduce CO2 emissions. Where this plan went wrong was when they picked the cheapest supplier of this gas, Russia.
- trashtester 4y agoActually, Norwegians blew up the heavy water plant.
- throw__away7391 4y agoNuke plants can use seawater for cooling. Most people live near the water.
- igravious 4y agoHere's an idea – build newer reactor sites near the sea, like (as you'll see from this map) a lot already are: https://www.nuclear-transparency-watch.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/carte_centrales_nucleaires_europe2.jpg https://www.nuclear-transparency-watch.eu/wp-content/uploads...
- goodpoint 4y agoA large body of water that impacted Fukushima.
- bondarchuk 4y ago[flagged]
- illiarian 4y agoFukushima: - hit by earthquake at or above upper structural limit. The most powerful earthquake ever recorded in Japan "maximum ground g-forces of 0.56, 0.52, 0.56 at units 2, 3, and 5 respectively. This exceeded the seismic reactor design tolerances of 0.45, 0.45, and 0.46 g for continued operation, but the seismic values were within the design tolerances at units 1, 4, and 6" - hit by tsunami exceeding that limit The largest tsunami wave was 13–14 m (43–46 feet) high and hit approximately 50 minutes after the initial earthquake, overwhelming the plant's ground level, which was 10 m (33 ft) above the sea level --- This resulted in 1 (one) death directly attributable to the incident
- goodpoint 4y ago> This resulted in 1 (one) death directly attributable to the incident Plus more that 200 billion $ paid by tax money that are NOT accounted into the cost of nuclear energy. Plus more deaths, injuries, loss of property value, etc due to the evacuation. Plus the economical impact of having stricter building regulations in future to prevent the same from happening again in future.
- illiarian 4y agoThis was the very definition of a black swan event. Imagine if all dams were subjected to the same insanity after dam failures like Banqiao Dam failure
- bayesian_horse 4y agoMost dams carry way more risk and way higher benefits.