6 ms·

You do realize that France right next door has tons of reactors and are building more.

flask_manager 4y ago
[flagged]
skrause 4y ago
> are building more Fun fact: In the last 20 years France has reduced its nuclear power output by just about the same total amount as Germany. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-energy-generation?tab=chart&country=FRA%7EDEU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-energy-generation...
_rrnv 4y ago
Plus Czech Rep, Austria (and Switzerland) all have plenty of nuclear plants and energy, and will fight the EU to keep them. Germany stance is ideological at best and irrational at worst. Time will tell if it works well for German in the end. Unfortunately their recent track record with risky decisions is not great (I refer to the refugee crisis and the reliance on russian gas).
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  Bullshit. There was no "decision" in the refugee crisis, we had to take in the refugees because of our constitution and frankly because we (constitutionally and fortunately) don't have the means to get rid of them even if we wanted to. So far everything works well for Germany. Relying on Russian gas meant cheaper power for quite some time. Hard to tell if alternatives would have fared better. Hindsight is always 20/20. Putin's invasion of Ukraine is irrational from any standpoint and not expecting him and his country shooting themselves in their feet that way wasn't illogical.
  - _ph_ 4y ago
    To be honest, there were plenty of warnings. Putins wars in Chechenia, Georgia. And he actually invaded Ukraine in 2014. That was the last date after which the German government should have planned for a future without gas from Russia.
    - bayesian_horse 4y ago
      Which isn't what you and others said at the time, I'd guess. Hardly anyone was advocating for this. None of the major parties for certain. Nobody wanted more expensive energy.
      - _ph_ 4y ago
        Sorry, why would you say such a thing about me? I was actually quite concerned by the absence of a strong international and especially German reaction to the invasion of 2014. Especially it became obvious, that all the Nordstream pipelines were a weapon against the Ukraine.
        bayesian_horse 4y ago
        Those voices just weren't there and it is plenty easy and convenient to say "I was concerned way before everybody else knew of the problem."
        _ph_ 4y ago
        Sure, but I wonder which basis you have to attack me personally. Especially since we mostly seem to agree on the topic of the discussion.
        bayesian_horse 4y ago
        I don't believe people are special.
- Hitton 4y ago
  >Austria You are completely wrong there, Austria is the biggest anti-nuclear zealot in EU, they are the reason why investments into nuclear are not considered green (effectively stifling development of it).
mixermachine 4y ago
France needs to buy electricity from Germany because reactors are down or can not function because the river used for cooling is to hot already. Water problems will get worse in the following years. The nuclear operating company is bankrupt and needed to be nationalized. Not really the best look for nuclear. In other countries it might work better.
- illiarian 4y ago
  > France needs to buy electricity from Germany because reactors are down or can not function because the river used for cooling is to hot already. Right now electricity maps shows that France produces 60% of electricity from nuclear, imports zero from Germany, and exports 6% of generated electricity to UK. Also right now Germany generates 26% from coal and 9% from gas.
  - bayesian_horse 4y ago
    Just wait until the summer. Also exports from Germany to France did indeed decline due to the transition.
  - mixermachine 4y ago
    Here is the historical data https://www.ceicdata.com/en/germany/electricity-imports-and-exports/electricity-imports-france#:~:text=Germany%20Electricity%20Imports%3A%20France%20data,Dec%202022%2C%20with%20396%20observations https://www.ceicdata.com/en/germany/electricity-imports-and-....
    - illiarian 4y ago
      Doesn't this show how much Germany imports from France?
      - mixermachine 4y ago
        I read it the other way but I can be wrong. Still Germany is reported as a net exporter: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-extends-power-exports-neighbours-2023-01-05/#:~:text=Germany%20is%20famous%20as%20a,an%20energy%20crisis%20at%20home.&text=France%2C%20Switzerland%20and%20Austria%20increased,Czech%20Republic%2C%20Belgium%20and%20Norway https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-....

[flagged]

> are building more Fun fact: In the last 20 years France has reduced its nuclear power output by just about the same total amount as Germany. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-energy-generation?tab=chart&country=FRA%7EDEU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-energy-generation...

_rrnv 4y ago

Plus Czech Rep, Austria (and Switzerland) all have plenty of nuclear plants and energy, and will fight the EU to keep them. Germany stance is ideological at best and irrational at worst. Time will tell if it works well for German in the end. Unfortunately their recent track record with risky decisions is not great (I refer to the refugee crisis and the reliance on russian gas).

bayesian_horse 4y ago
Bullshit. There was no "decision" in the refugee crisis, we had to take in the refugees because of our constitution and frankly because we (constitutionally and fortunately) don't have the means to get rid of them even if we wanted to. So far everything works well for Germany. Relying on Russian gas meant cheaper power for quite some time. Hard to tell if alternatives would have fared better. Hindsight is always 20/20. Putin's invasion of Ukraine is irrational from any standpoint and not expecting him and his country shooting themselves in their feet that way wasn't illogical.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  To be honest, there were plenty of warnings. Putins wars in Chechenia, Georgia. And he actually invaded Ukraine in 2014. That was the last date after which the German government should have planned for a future without gas from Russia.
  - bayesian_horse 4y ago
    Which isn't what you and others said at the time, I'd guess. Hardly anyone was advocating for this. None of the major parties for certain. Nobody wanted more expensive energy.
    - _ph_ 4y ago
      Sorry, why would you say such a thing about me? I was actually quite concerned by the absence of a strong international and especially German reaction to the invasion of 2014. Especially it became obvious, that all the Nordstream pipelines were a weapon against the Ukraine.
      - bayesian_horse 4y ago
        Those voices just weren't there and it is plenty easy and convenient to say "I was concerned way before everybody else knew of the problem."
        _ph_ 4y ago
        Sure, but I wonder which basis you have to attack me personally. Especially since we mostly seem to agree on the topic of the discussion.
        bayesian_horse 4y ago
        I don't believe people are special.
Hitton 4y ago
>Austria You are completely wrong there, Austria is the biggest anti-nuclear zealot in EU, they are the reason why investments into nuclear are not considered green (effectively stifling development of it).

mixermachine 4y ago

France needs to buy electricity from Germany because reactors are down or can not function because the river used for cooling is to hot already. Water problems will get worse in the following years. The nuclear operating company is bankrupt and needed to be nationalized. Not really the best look for nuclear. In other countries it might work better.

illiarian 4y ago
> France needs to buy electricity from Germany because reactors are down or can not function because the river used for cooling is to hot already. Right now electricity maps shows that France produces 60% of electricity from nuclear, imports zero from Germany, and exports 6% of generated electricity to UK. Also right now Germany generates 26% from coal and 9% from gas.
- bayesian_horse 4y ago
  Just wait until the summer. Also exports from Germany to France did indeed decline due to the transition.
- mixermachine 4y ago
  Here is the historical data https://www.ceicdata.com/en/germany/electricity-imports-and-exports/electricity-imports-france#:~:text=Germany%20Electricity%20Imports%3A%20France%20data,Dec%202022%2C%20with%20396%20observations https://www.ceicdata.com/en/germany/electricity-imports-and-....
  - illiarian 4y ago
    Doesn't this show how much Germany imports from France?
    - mixermachine 4y ago
      I read it the other way but I can be wrong. Still Germany is reported as a net exporter: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-extends-power-exports-neighbours-2023-01-05/#:~:text=Germany%20is%20famous%20as%20a,an%20energy%20crisis%20at%20home.&text=France%2C%20Switzerland%20and%20Austria%20increased,Czech%20Republic%2C%20Belgium%20and%20Norway https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-....