5 ms·

I'm from Germany and hearing about them for the first time as well.

Arnt 3y ago
It's a big and fairly old firm. Enterprise, not at all consumer-oriented. The kind of software that's introduced into customer companies by management decree and that earns little friendship among the techs.
sam_lowry_ 3y ago
It's a B2B business that grew out of a mainframe database Adabas, then started to diversify "into XML", then analytics by buyouts. It is only tangentially a competitor to SAP in that they sell to the same public administrations and multi-billion corporations. They did little to make the world a better place, aside from commissioning a beautiful HQ building and employing the author of Saxon for a while. The core workforce is aging, the buyouts keep the middle management busy but do not always turn into new business lines.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Would you recommend working there? Not necessarily as a developer. I don't care about "disrupting the industry" or "making the world a better place through minimal message oriented transport layers", I just want a comfy well paying job with great promotion prospects.
  - codethief 3y ago
    > "making the world a better place through minimal message oriented transport layers" I knew I had heard this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmpYxbBDQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmpYxbBDQw
belter 3y ago
First time you are hearing about the second biggest software company in Germany? What does that say about Software companies and the Germany economy?
- moffkalast 3y ago
  That they have impossibly generic names? Every time this company's mentioned people probably thing they were referencing software development in general.
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  The concept is called "hidden champions" and they exist in Germany all over the place: companies that run impressive revenue and profits and sometimes keep surprisingly big parts of the economy (domestically or even internationally) afloat by simply doing their work that everybody depends on - and that nobody (outside their circle) has ever heard of. Software AG isn't _quite_ that because hidden champions tend to be privately owned while SAG is publicly traded and was big in the M&A space, but they're still close enough in my opinion. Private companies in important niches of the economic fabric can work for a long time without anybody but their employees and direct commercial partners ever hearing about them. On the other hand, such companies tend to over-specialize and aren't very flexible when it comes to adapting to market shifts. Take automotive for example where there are a bunch of companies (that you likely never heard of) that do marvels in mechanical engineering for the big brands (that you have heard of): A fair amount of that is falling apart with the move to the much simpler electric designs where that kind of process simply isn't necessary anymore. As an example, when people are concerned about the German industry and economy taking a hit by the move to EVs, it's not so much Daimler's (et al) hesitancy to move to EVs that they're thinking of, and worrying that they might not make it, it's that cottage industry of specialists which support Daimler et al that becomes redundant. That hesitancy to move off the well-trodden path might, in part, be motivated by a desire to keep that ecosystem alive, maybe due to political encouragement, maybe because it's the devil you know, maybe out of concern for the economy and workers.
- PapstJL4U 3y ago
  A very german phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions
  - sam_lowry_ 3y ago
    Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand although both articles are not even linked.
throwbadubadu 3y ago
Dito, also triggers funny bad associations with https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_AG https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_AG

Arnt 3y ago

It's a big and fairly old firm. Enterprise, not at all consumer-oriented. The kind of software that's introduced into customer companies by management decree and that earns little friendship among the techs.

sam_lowry_ 3y ago

It's a B2B business that grew out of a mainframe database Adabas, then started to diversify "into XML", then analytics by buyouts. It is only tangentially a competitor to SAP in that they sell to the same public administrations and multi-billion corporations. They did little to make the world a better place, aside from commissioning a beautiful HQ building and employing the author of Saxon for a while. The core workforce is aging, the buyouts keep the middle management busy but do not always turn into new business lines.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Would you recommend working there? Not necessarily as a developer. I don't care about "disrupting the industry" or "making the world a better place through minimal message oriented transport layers", I just want a comfy well paying job with great promotion prospects.
- codethief 3y ago
  > "making the world a better place through minimal message oriented transport layers" I knew I had heard this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmpYxbBDQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZmpYxbBDQw

belter 3y ago

First time you are hearing about the second biggest software company in Germany? What does that say about Software companies and the Germany economy?

moffkalast 3y ago
That they have impossibly generic names? Every time this company's mentioned people probably thing they were referencing software development in general.
pgeorgi 3y ago
The concept is called "hidden champions" and they exist in Germany all over the place: companies that run impressive revenue and profits and sometimes keep surprisingly big parts of the economy (domestically or even internationally) afloat by simply doing their work that everybody depends on - and that nobody (outside their circle) has ever heard of. Software AG isn't _quite_ that because hidden champions tend to be privately owned while SAG is publicly traded and was big in the M&A space, but they're still close enough in my opinion. Private companies in important niches of the economic fabric can work for a long time without anybody but their employees and direct commercial partners ever hearing about them. On the other hand, such companies tend to over-specialize and aren't very flexible when it comes to adapting to market shifts. Take automotive for example where there are a bunch of companies (that you likely never heard of) that do marvels in mechanical engineering for the big brands (that you have heard of): A fair amount of that is falling apart with the move to the much simpler electric designs where that kind of process simply isn't necessary anymore. As an example, when people are concerned about the German industry and economy taking a hit by the move to EVs, it's not so much Daimler's (et al) hesitancy to move to EVs that they're thinking of, and worrying that they might not make it, it's that cottage industry of specialists which support Daimler et al that becomes redundant. That hesitancy to move off the well-trodden path might, in part, be motivated by a desire to keep that ecosystem alive, maybe due to political encouragement, maybe because it's the devil you know, maybe out of concern for the economy and workers.
PapstJL4U 3y ago
A very german phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_champions
- sam_lowry_ 3y ago
  Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand although both articles are not even linked.

throwbadubadu 3y ago

Dito, also triggers funny bad associations with https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_AG https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_AG