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From the comments in this thread, many are not understanding that password borrowers are typically contributing to the account owner's monthly subscription, and

From the comments in this thread, many are not understanding that password borrowers are typically contributing to the account owner's monthly subscription, and many account owners, when faced to the full price of the subscription will eventually unsubscribe as well. 5€ month for what Netflix has to offer is one thing, 18€/month, for many, becomes an instant no-deal.

cactusplant7374 3y ago
Not according to Netflix: > We see a cancel reaction in each market when we announce the news,” Netflix said in its first quarter earnings release on April 18, expecting the dip to be momentary before users that didn’t pay start signing up for their own accounts. “In Canada, which we believe is a reliable predictor for the US, our paid membership base is now larger than prior to the launch of paid sharing and revenue growth has accelerated and is now growing faster than in the US,” Netflix said.
- gcatalfamo 3y ago
  Europe is culturally VERY different from US and Canada. Although you may be right, I would never expect Netflix to admit my thesis, even if well known around here.
danpalmer 3y ago
Do you think most sharers are contributing to the price? I really don’t think that’s the case. I’ve never heard of anyone charging family members for access to their Netflix account. There might be some friend groups who split the cost of an account between them, but I suspect far more common is that parents have an account that kids (who might be independent adults) use, couples who don’t live together sharing passwords, or more well off siblings letting less well off siblings use their account.
- gcatalfamo 3y ago
  >> Do you think most sharers are contributing to the price? All of them? Certainly not. Many? Yes. >> There might be some friend groups who split the cost of an account between them, but I suspect far more common is that parents have an account that kids (who might be independent adults) use, couples who don’t live together sharing passwords Yes, but although we don't have details on demographics, in Europe it is widely "accepted" (for lack a better word) that many friends, relative and even acquaintances share an account and its costs. I don't have number so consider it totally anecdotical, but it is honestly common sense, especially in southern and eastern Europe. (I am from Italy, FWIW) edit: this is also true for Spotify Family accounts. Agains TOS? Sure. Do they do it anyway? Yes.
  - gcatalfamo 3y ago
    I'll double down with another anecdote: It is very common sense here to say "Ok, I'll cover Netflix, you'll cover Disney+/Spotify/other" The moment when one of this services doesn't allow sharing anymore, this system will fall, and users will be incredibly more selective to what they will subscribe to.
    - danpalmer 3y ago
      This anecdote resonates much more than explicit sharing of costs, thanks. I suspect this might be cultural, and not just at a country level. I wouldn't dream of charging a family member £5 a month for something, I'd either let them use it or not. But that may not be true everywhere. Between friends it makes a lot more sense, but as I said I've typically seen Netflix/etc shared in families not friends, probably because the lack of money changing hands makes it easier.
- planede 3y ago
  They may share back a streaming account to a different provider.
  - maskedPenguin 3y ago
    This is my take as well. All people I know either share the expenses or share different streaming accounts, which by extension is a share of expenses, just across the streaming universe instead of only Netflix. Now Netflix may not be too hurt by being the first to do this, but if all the streaming services do this, it will basically amount to a price hike for most people.
jackthezipper 3y ago
Exactly right, I would've cancelled my subscription after the last price hike if my family wasn't chipping in.
jeroenhd 3y ago
I'm not sure if that's the case necessarily. I'm sharing my account but people aren't sending me money every month to cover expenses. Instead, we pool accounts. If I wanted to, I can get Disney+ and regular TV, while I provide Netflix and Amazon Prime in return. If all else fails, there's a Jellyfin server that gets regular use. Everyone pays full price, but everyone only pays for one service, maybe two. The fragmentation of services is the real killer here. This wasn't a problem back when Netflix first came here and basically offered everything there was to offer until then Disney clawed back a whole bunch of its properties. €18 for Netflix would be fine if you weren't also expected to pay €17 for Amazon Prime and €19 for Disney+ and €14 for Paramount Plus and €15 for HBO Max (only available on some ISPs). I'd pay full price for a streaming service that had everything and I think many people I know would too. I'd even be able to look past the stupid 720p limit (I run Linux so I cannot be trusted with the noisy 1080p encodes). Instead, my workflow now comes down to "check Netflix, if not found, download torrent". These companies could've had the Spotify of video streaming services, which basically ended traditional music piracy, but instead wound up burning their version of Spotify down for a short term profit.
- gcatalfamo 3y ago
  You are also right, it is the scenario I hinted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35711055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35711055 Depending on the service/people sharing with, I personally witnessed both sharing costs of the single service and distributing full ownership among different services... There are people who want to control all of them while absorbing costs, there are others who just want access.
- reportgunner 3y ago
  > If I wanted to, I can get Disney+ and regular TV, while I provide Netflix and Amazon Prime in return. Reminds me of old days when all we had was dialup and we would pool our warez downloads with the community. I send you Seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy and I get the latest Season of Stargate in return. All burned on CDs or DVDs shipped via post.
VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
They know who all the password sharers are. They've spent months, or even years running models to predict the fallout if they cut off password sharing. None of the actual results are going to be in any way surprising to them. So while people here think they're doing this to their own detriment, their legion of scientists have already told them the end result which is obviously not detrimental or they wouldn't be doing it now.
- C-x_C-f 3y ago
  I believe that you're right but also I wouldn't underestimate the chance that the decision came from some MBA instead of a "legion of scientists"
- btown 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_models_are_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_models_are_wrong
- Juicyy 3y ago
  They can run all the models in the world but it only takes one misunderstood factor to underestimate the fallout. I think they want the other streaming services to follow suit (like Apple with the AUX) but if the others dont bite, Netflix screwed themselves. Most of their users feel betrayed at a time where competition is more than ever. You dont have to be smart to understand its not a good move.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > You dont have to be smart to understand its not a good move. You can't make reasonable conclusions during transients. Wait until things have settled before judging if the move was smart or not. When they tried this in other countries, they saw a dip and then growth. According to their statements, a dip is part of their model.
- rg111 3y ago
  As a "scientist" mentioned in your comment (they call us Research Engineers), I have to tell you that this is a business decision. One or more than one suit in the C-level made this decision. And, as a scientist, you cannot build a model with a never-happened-before phenomena. Only "risk specialists", "risk engineers", etc. which are different names for BSers will even try to "predict" this. How can one build a "model" with no x (password policing enforcement) and only y (stay or drop) is beyond me. If anyone does, I will show you an idiot/BSer. I am sure this is a business decision. Or MLEs/Deep Learning Engineers are going beyond the capabilities of their fields. Sure, you can predict if a user is going to drop if a show he was binging is going away or his watching pattern, time spent watching, etc. But to build models with password policing enforcement? Hah! Trying to predict whether this decision is harmful in the long run is not in the realm of science, but of art, business, or bullshitting. I don't know if NFLX did a smaller scale pilot study and tried to build a model, but that would be inadequate. Note: Never worked for Netflix.
lvl102 3y ago
It’s really not that expensive. You make it sound like Netflix is getting away with murder. If you use it, pay for it. Grow up.
- gcatalfamo 3y ago
  I didn't attack Netflix at all. You seem upset that the market dynamics seem to behave in a way you don't like/support. Am I the one that has to grow up?

cactusplant7374 3y ago

Not according to Netflix: > We see a cancel reaction in each market when we announce the news,” Netflix said in its first quarter earnings release on April 18, expecting the dip to be momentary before users that didn’t pay start signing up for their own accounts. “In Canada, which we believe is a reliable predictor for the US, our paid membership base is now larger than prior to the launch of paid sharing and revenue growth has accelerated and is now growing faster than in the US,” Netflix said.

gcatalfamo 3y ago
Europe is culturally VERY different from US and Canada. Although you may be right, I would never expect Netflix to admit my thesis, even if well known around here.

danpalmer 3y ago

Do you think most sharers are contributing to the price? I really don’t think that’s the case. I’ve never heard of anyone charging family members for access to their Netflix account. There might be some friend groups who split the cost of an account between them, but I suspect far more common is that parents have an account that kids (who might be independent adults) use, couples who don’t live together sharing passwords, or more well off siblings letting less well off siblings use their account.

gcatalfamo 3y ago
>> Do you think most sharers are contributing to the price? All of them? Certainly not. Many? Yes. >> There might be some friend groups who split the cost of an account between them, but I suspect far more common is that parents have an account that kids (who might be independent adults) use, couples who don’t live together sharing passwords Yes, but although we don't have details on demographics, in Europe it is widely "accepted" (for lack a better word) that many friends, relative and even acquaintances share an account and its costs. I don't have number so consider it totally anecdotical, but it is honestly common sense, especially in southern and eastern Europe. (I am from Italy, FWIW) edit: this is also true for Spotify Family accounts. Agains TOS? Sure. Do they do it anyway? Yes.
- gcatalfamo 3y ago
  I'll double down with another anecdote: It is very common sense here to say "Ok, I'll cover Netflix, you'll cover Disney+/Spotify/other" The moment when one of this services doesn't allow sharing anymore, this system will fall, and users will be incredibly more selective to what they will subscribe to.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    This anecdote resonates much more than explicit sharing of costs, thanks. I suspect this might be cultural, and not just at a country level. I wouldn't dream of charging a family member £5 a month for something, I'd either let them use it or not. But that may not be true everywhere. Between friends it makes a lot more sense, but as I said I've typically seen Netflix/etc shared in families not friends, probably because the lack of money changing hands makes it easier.
planede 3y ago
They may share back a streaming account to a different provider.
- maskedPenguin 3y ago
  This is my take as well. All people I know either share the expenses or share different streaming accounts, which by extension is a share of expenses, just across the streaming universe instead of only Netflix. Now Netflix may not be too hurt by being the first to do this, but if all the streaming services do this, it will basically amount to a price hike for most people.

jackthezipper 3y ago

Exactly right, I would've cancelled my subscription after the last price hike if my family wasn't chipping in.

jeroenhd 3y ago

I'm not sure if that's the case necessarily. I'm sharing my account but people aren't sending me money every month to cover expenses. Instead, we pool accounts. If I wanted to, I can get Disney+ and regular TV, while I provide Netflix and Amazon Prime in return. If all else fails, there's a Jellyfin server that gets regular use. Everyone pays full price, but everyone only pays for one service, maybe two. The fragmentation of services is the real killer here. This wasn't a problem back when Netflix first came here and basically offered everything there was to offer until then Disney clawed back a whole bunch of its properties. €18 for Netflix would be fine if you weren't also expected to pay €17 for Amazon Prime and €19 for Disney+ and €14 for Paramount Plus and €15 for HBO Max (only available on some ISPs). I'd pay full price for a streaming service that had everything and I think many people I know would too. I'd even be able to look past the stupid 720p limit (I run Linux so I cannot be trusted with the noisy 1080p encodes). Instead, my workflow now comes down to "check Netflix, if not found, download torrent". These companies could've had the Spotify of video streaming services, which basically ended traditional music piracy, but instead wound up burning their version of Spotify down for a short term profit.

gcatalfamo 3y ago
You are also right, it is the scenario I hinted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35711055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35711055 Depending on the service/people sharing with, I personally witnessed both sharing costs of the single service and distributing full ownership among different services... There are people who want to control all of them while absorbing costs, there are others who just want access.
reportgunner 3y ago
> If I wanted to, I can get Disney+ and regular TV, while I provide Netflix and Amazon Prime in return. Reminds me of old days when all we had was dialup and we would pool our warez downloads with the community. I send you Seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy and I get the latest Season of Stargate in return. All burned on CDs or DVDs shipped via post.

VWWHFSfQ 3y ago

They know who all the password sharers are. They've spent months, or even years running models to predict the fallout if they cut off password sharing. None of the actual results are going to be in any way surprising to them. So while people here think they're doing this to their own detriment, their legion of scientists have already told them the end result which is obviously not detrimental or they wouldn't be doing it now.

C-x_C-f 3y ago
I believe that you're right but also I wouldn't underestimate the chance that the decision came from some MBA instead of a "legion of scientists"
btown 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_models_are_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_models_are_wrong
Juicyy 3y ago
They can run all the models in the world but it only takes one misunderstood factor to underestimate the fallout. I think they want the other streaming services to follow suit (like Apple with the AUX) but if the others dont bite, Netflix screwed themselves. Most of their users feel betrayed at a time where competition is more than ever. You dont have to be smart to understand its not a good move.
- nomel 3y ago
  > You dont have to be smart to understand its not a good move. You can't make reasonable conclusions during transients. Wait until things have settled before judging if the move was smart or not. When they tried this in other countries, they saw a dip and then growth. According to their statements, a dip is part of their model.
rg111 3y ago
As a "scientist" mentioned in your comment (they call us Research Engineers), I have to tell you that this is a business decision. One or more than one suit in the C-level made this decision. And, as a scientist, you cannot build a model with a never-happened-before phenomena. Only "risk specialists", "risk engineers", etc. which are different names for BSers will even try to "predict" this. How can one build a "model" with no x (password policing enforcement) and only y (stay or drop) is beyond me. If anyone does, I will show you an idiot/BSer. I am sure this is a business decision. Or MLEs/Deep Learning Engineers are going beyond the capabilities of their fields. Sure, you can predict if a user is going to drop if a show he was binging is going away or his watching pattern, time spent watching, etc. But to build models with password policing enforcement? Hah! Trying to predict whether this decision is harmful in the long run is not in the realm of science, but of art, business, or bullshitting. I don't know if NFLX did a smaller scale pilot study and tried to build a model, but that would be inadequate. Note: Never worked for Netflix.

lvl102 3y ago

It’s really not that expensive. You make it sound like Netflix is getting away with murder. If you use it, pay for it. Grow up.

gcatalfamo 3y ago
I didn't attack Netflix at all. You seem upset that the market dynamics seem to behave in a way you don't like/support. Am I the one that has to grow up?