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The average American uses (or should use) the standard deduction. Those using complicated tricks to pay less on taxes are a minority. > Taxes are just controve

The average American uses (or should use) the standard deduction. Those using complicated tricks to pay less on taxes are a minority. > Taxes are just controversial by nature Yes, but that doesn't mean that anything tax related automatically has no solution, you have to look at the specifics. And in this specific case things could be a bit better for many people.

deathanatos 4y ago
Well … so I do agree, in a minority. But for example, I still took a tax credit due to investing, which isn't terribly rare. The best information I can find on taxable investment accounts[1] suggests that approximately 33% of Americans are in that bucket. While I concur it is a minority, it's not exactly a small minority. There's also state-level taxes, where I took a number of deductions such as from renting, which is also a minority, again about a third, and again from investing², so that same third again. I think those two minorities won't share that much overlap, perhaps even enough to get to a majority. (I should note too that these are criticisms of the complexity of the tax code itself; none of this invalidates the point that the original commenter above this thread started with: that the IRS knows all this and can simply compute a bill, on top of which — if required — alterations can be made. That seems to stand. But while, yes, many people — myself included — take the standard deduction, there's just enough other junk in the taxes that I feel like you can fairly easily wind up hitting one or two complications.) [1]: https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/fixed-income-advisory-committee/finra-investor-education-foundation-investor-households-fimsa-040918.pdf https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/fixed-income-advisory-committe... though a bit dated. ²Some states, mine included, do not tax income from US government obligations; this is pretty easy to get into accidentally if you're just doing something like a robo-account (which is how I have this situation). But this information is a PITA to get, because it is not captured in any box on a standardized form.
- jedberg 4y ago
  Sure, but for something that applies to 30% of people, they could either ask you if that situation applies to you and then ask you to fill in the info. Like how TurboTax asks you a bunch of questions. But the government would have to ask you as many questions as TurboTax because they already have a lot of the info. Did you know that around August/September you can log into your IRS account and download all the forms the government has on you for that year? They would just have to expose that earlier. Or just make the tax deadline October.
  - deathanatos 4y ago
    > Sure, but for something that applies to 30% of people, they could either ask you if that situation applies to you and then ask you to fill in the info. Yes, I'm aware. (That's even the argument you're responding to…) The point is that there are several credits and deductions; some with with P(it applies to me) of ~30%. The point is not P(a given deduction applies to me), but P(any deduction applies to me), and that that probability, I think, is fairly high. To say "yeah but most people can take the standard deduction" is a true statement, but it ignores where the complexity of taxes is. (Heck, I took the standard deduction, and again, there is information required for taxes that is known to all the relevant authorities — just not me, at least not via any official means. If it's input to the tax code, it should be given a Box on a tax form, a the very least.)

deathanatos 4y ago

Well … so I do agree, in a minority. But for example, I still took a tax credit due to investing, which isn't terribly rare. The best information I can find on taxable investment accounts[1] suggests that approximately 33% of Americans are in that bucket. While I concur it is a minority, it's not exactly a small minority. There's also state-level taxes, where I took a number of deductions such as from renting, which is also a minority, again about a third, and again from investing², so that same third again. I think those two minorities won't share that much overlap, perhaps even enough to get to a majority. (I should note too that these are criticisms of the complexity of the tax code itself; none of this invalidates the point that the original commenter above this thread started with: that the IRS knows all this and can simply compute a bill, on top of which — if required — alterations can be made. That seems to stand. But while, yes, many people — myself included — take the standard deduction, there's just enough other junk in the taxes that I feel like you can fairly easily wind up hitting one or two complications.) [1]: https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/fixed-income-advisory-committee/finra-investor-education-foundation-investor-households-fimsa-040918.pdf https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/fixed-income-advisory-committe... though a bit dated. ²Some states, mine included, do not tax income from US government obligations; this is pretty easy to get into accidentally if you're just doing something like a robo-account (which is how I have this situation). But this information is a PITA to get, because it is not captured in any box on a standardized form.

jedberg 4y ago
Sure, but for something that applies to 30% of people, they could either ask you if that situation applies to you and then ask you to fill in the info. Like how TurboTax asks you a bunch of questions. But the government would have to ask you as many questions as TurboTax because they already have a lot of the info. Did you know that around August/September you can log into your IRS account and download all the forms the government has on you for that year? They would just have to expose that earlier. Or just make the tax deadline October.
- deathanatos 4y ago
  > Sure, but for something that applies to 30% of people, they could either ask you if that situation applies to you and then ask you to fill in the info. Yes, I'm aware. (That's even the argument you're responding to…) The point is that there are several credits and deductions; some with with P(it applies to me) of ~30%. The point is not P(a given deduction applies to me), but P(any deduction applies to me), and that that probability, I think, is fairly high. To say "yeah but most people can take the standard deduction" is a true statement, but it ignores where the complexity of taxes is. (Heck, I took the standard deduction, and again, there is information required for taxes that is known to all the relevant authorities — just not me, at least not via any official means. If it's input to the tax code, it should be given a Box on a tax form, a the very least.)