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There was a time, about 1.6 million years, when you could bring your axe into the woods, maybe with a friend or two, cut a clearing, and build a whole house wit

There was a time, about 1.6 million years, when you could bring your axe into the woods, maybe with a friend or two, cut a clearing, and build a whole house with wood furniture that your great great grandchildren would use. You could eat the abundant animals, drink the clean water, and enjoy an entire life without ever once imbibing microplastics and PFAS. It might have been a lot of work - but it was completely free. Those times are long gone, and it doesn't seem likely they'll ever return -- but that is how we lived for the vast majority of our time as human beings.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
But then you died from a minor cut you got while building that house, and before that you buried most of your young children. A life spent assembling IKEA may not be the best life, but it sure beats that.
JAlexoid 4y ago
I suggest you go visit an exhibition on how people in the dark ages or in the middle ages lived. YOu probably live with hot and cold water, that you can drink... and pretty much everyone in the developed world can afford a banana... that kind of "luxury" wasn't available to kings just 200 years ago.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  I am well aware. But that's all off topic. The statement I was responding to claimed that humans could never afford nice furniture. But we've had axes for 1.6 million years, and abundant old-growth forests for 1.6 million years, and so, for the vast, vast, vast majority of human history we have in fact had the ability to make sturdy, beautiful, long lasting furniture completely for free. The middle ages and the "dark" ages weren't even all that bad. They had more free time than we did. They had far more birds and beasts. They paid less taxes. They didn't have a multi-billion dollar ad industry telling them they're not good enough. They lived with nature, a nature we'll never know. Yes, there was the war and the religious craziness and the fear of apocalypse - wait a minute, we still have all of that stuff except the fear of apocalypse is way more legit now. I love modern plumbing, and many aspects of the internet. I love the access to culture and knowledge. Antibiotics are cool. I'd rather live now than then. But the idea that people 500; 5,000; or 500,000 years ago had nasty lives far inferior to our own is not entirely justified. Again though - that's all off topic. Those guys 500,000 years ago had free housing, free wood to burn, and incredible biodiversity which we'll never be able to appreciate in our world of modern anthropocene extinction. And, probably, really nice furniture; if they wanted to make it.
  - JAlexoid 4y ago
    > vast, vast, vast majority of human history we have in fact had the ability to make sturdy, beautiful, long lasting furniture completely for free Again... Go visit and Egyptological museum. Go see how rough, compared to modern furniture, the royal masterpiece chairs were. For the 1599950 out of 1600000 years humans definitely could not afford or had any nice furniture. Absolute majority couldn't afford even rough sturdy, unnice furniture. And your comment about "free housing" is naive... It wasn't free and desirable places had their own issues. Taking a dump on companies like IKEA is very much the most condescending thing we could do. I certainly have experienced the inability to purchase even the most basic necessities, where IKEA would have provided some relief.
    - mandmandam 4y ago
      ... I didn't dump on Ikea anywhere. Not remotely. Neither did GP. Nor did I speak of comfort. Nor did GP. Perhaps you are taking context from elsewhere in the comments and misapplying it to this little thread? I spoke of beauty and sturdiness and longevity; nature, biodiversity. I've been to many museums; I've seen the thrones. Roughness doesn't matter when you're putting cushions on, or when your buns are tough from years without sitting on padded chairs. Your definition of nice furniture is very different from mine, clearly. I suggest that you might try to see things from a broader perspective. On your other points: Egypt wasn't known for its abundant forests - I don't know why you would expect great carpentry. Their cushions won't be in the museum, for what I hope are obvious reasons. You cannot seriously claim only the furniture of the last 50 years is nice, while excoriating me for my lack of knowledge of how ancient people lived. Go read some descriptions of Sumerian furniture. And yes, if you take your stone axe in 1.5 million BC, and clear a space, and build a house, it's free. Hard work - as I said - but free. No property taxes, no mortgage. Free. No HOA, no building standards... Free. There's nothing "naive" about that. What's patently naive is this insistence that only modern people have any sense of craftsmanship or comfort or quality - I say that because it's true, and you need to hear it; not to flame.
      - JAlexoid 4y ago
        This thread is most definitely an opinion thread. Which is quite misguided, as you still can go to many places on this planet where literally all of what you wrote is true. There are vast swathes of land on this planet, where you can go and do exactly what our great ancestors did 1mil years ago. Not to mention that your whole opinion rests on the notion that labor is free.

matthewdgreen 4y ago

But then you died from a minor cut you got while building that house, and before that you buried most of your young children. A life spent assembling IKEA may not be the best life, but it sure beats that.

JAlexoid 4y ago

I suggest you go visit an exhibition on how people in the dark ages or in the middle ages lived. YOu probably live with hot and cold water, that you can drink... and pretty much everyone in the developed world can afford a banana... that kind of "luxury" wasn't available to kings just 200 years ago.

mandmandam 4y ago
I am well aware. But that's all off topic. The statement I was responding to claimed that humans could never afford nice furniture. But we've had axes for 1.6 million years, and abundant old-growth forests for 1.6 million years, and so, for the vast, vast, vast majority of human history we have in fact had the ability to make sturdy, beautiful, long lasting furniture completely for free. The middle ages and the "dark" ages weren't even all that bad. They had more free time than we did. They had far more birds and beasts. They paid less taxes. They didn't have a multi-billion dollar ad industry telling them they're not good enough. They lived with nature, a nature we'll never know. Yes, there was the war and the religious craziness and the fear of apocalypse - wait a minute, we still have all of that stuff except the fear of apocalypse is way more legit now. I love modern plumbing, and many aspects of the internet. I love the access to culture and knowledge. Antibiotics are cool. I'd rather live now than then. But the idea that people 500; 5,000; or 500,000 years ago had nasty lives far inferior to our own is not entirely justified. Again though - that's all off topic. Those guys 500,000 years ago had free housing, free wood to burn, and incredible biodiversity which we'll never be able to appreciate in our world of modern anthropocene extinction. And, probably, really nice furniture; if they wanted to make it.
- JAlexoid 4y ago
  > vast, vast, vast majority of human history we have in fact had the ability to make sturdy, beautiful, long lasting furniture completely for free Again... Go visit and Egyptological museum. Go see how rough, compared to modern furniture, the royal masterpiece chairs were. For the 1599950 out of 1600000 years humans definitely could not afford or had any nice furniture. Absolute majority couldn't afford even rough sturdy, unnice furniture. And your comment about "free housing" is naive... It wasn't free and desirable places had their own issues. Taking a dump on companies like IKEA is very much the most condescending thing we could do. I certainly have experienced the inability to purchase even the most basic necessities, where IKEA would have provided some relief.
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    ... I didn't dump on Ikea anywhere. Not remotely. Neither did GP. Nor did I speak of comfort. Nor did GP. Perhaps you are taking context from elsewhere in the comments and misapplying it to this little thread? I spoke of beauty and sturdiness and longevity; nature, biodiversity. I've been to many museums; I've seen the thrones. Roughness doesn't matter when you're putting cushions on, or when your buns are tough from years without sitting on padded chairs. Your definition of nice furniture is very different from mine, clearly. I suggest that you might try to see things from a broader perspective. On your other points: Egypt wasn't known for its abundant forests - I don't know why you would expect great carpentry. Their cushions won't be in the museum, for what I hope are obvious reasons. You cannot seriously claim only the furniture of the last 50 years is nice, while excoriating me for my lack of knowledge of how ancient people lived. Go read some descriptions of Sumerian furniture. And yes, if you take your stone axe in 1.5 million BC, and clear a space, and build a house, it's free. Hard work - as I said - but free. No property taxes, no mortgage. Free. No HOA, no building standards... Free. There's nothing "naive" about that. What's patently naive is this insistence that only modern people have any sense of craftsmanship or comfort or quality - I say that because it's true, and you need to hear it; not to flame.
    - JAlexoid 4y ago
      This thread is most definitely an opinion thread. Which is quite misguided, as you still can go to many places on this planet where literally all of what you wrote is true. There are vast swathes of land on this planet, where you can go and do exactly what our great ancestors did 1mil years ago. Not to mention that your whole opinion rests on the notion that labor is free.