5 ms·

I would love for someone who knows more about this to also explain to me why goods sold on Amazon, which 20 years ago would be something I need to replace once

• babelthuap 4y ago
  They sell many outdated models. I've experienced it enough times I rarely use Amazon anymore. The difference in the latest model and the outdated one can often be drastic like a major improvement. It's a sneaky system of dumping inferior products on consumers. On some things however you can burn Amazon. I bought a commercial leg press last year that weighted over 500 lbs. Everyone else wanted to charge shipping of almost $200. Not Amazon. Free shipping and for the same price as everyone else. SOLD!
• aintgonnatakeit 4y ago
  It’s part of a broader trend of enshittification that has hollowed out the middle. I blame the concentration of market power in the hands of a few large companies, mostly privately held. So you can pay far more for something good, or you can resign yourself to replacing the garbage everyone sells these days in the rapacious pursuit of shareholder value extraction.
  • foxyv 4y ago
    I've found most of the shitty garbage I buy has a single point of failure that can be replaced with a quality part. A plastic gear replaced with brass or steel. A capacitor. Sometimes just a dodgy USB port. A slowly degrading OS that is eventually discontinued. I've extended the life of several devices by decades through simple repairs. It is no wonder that these same companies that want you buying a new washer/fridge/oven every 4 years are opposing right to repair. They love adding walled gardens to their products. Even our BBQs are getting electronic garbage added that can't be fixed normally...
    • m463 4y ago
      I wonder if you're touching on the ikea effect - your modification makes it more valuable to you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect Personally, I found that if the product is heavy, don't buy it on amazon. Everything is relentlessly based on shipping costs. If you buy wire shelves on amazon, they cost slightly less but the entire unit is far less durable.
      • foxyv 4y ago
        Naw, I'm just cheap. My washer had to literally fall apart before I replaced it. Cheap galvanized cast iron junk that vibrated itself to death. Our family motto is "I can make it cheaper than that!" which tells you how often we fall victim to the IKEA effect. Lately I like to budget out my projects so I know if I'm actually saving any money. Especially considering labor. Most of my projects lately are stuff I can't get for hook or crook from anywhere. You are totally right about heavy stuff on Amazon. To your door freight is SO expensive. The problem is all the stores are setting their prices to Amazon's prices.
  • listenallyall 4y ago
    > the rapacious pursuit of shareholder value extraction It's always the fault of greedy corporatists here on HN -- honestly, that is just lazy thinking. Sure, they want to make money. But also, the average Joe wants stuff cheap. Made in China, lots of plastics replacing metal, lower-density materials, fewer fixable/replaceable parts, limited quality control. You can't really blame companies who build their products like this when it's shown over and over and over that cheap stuff is what sells.
    • aintgonnatakeit 4y ago
      This explains the growth in the low end but not the lack of decent mid-range options. We no longer have good/better/best. We only have shitty/best and one is 10x the price of the other. Of course Joe Blow isn’t going to spring for the 10x option; he can’t afford it. In the min-maxing of profit margins, we’ve lost the pretty ok. Also I didn’t blame the corporations man; I specifically blamed market consolidation, greedy investors, and the output of HBS.
      • dnissley 4y ago
        Either you need the item onceish so you buy the cheap option, or you use it a lot so you buy the expensive option. Those in between can find a used expensive option on marketplace/craigslist/etc. Not a lot of demand left in between after that.
      • listenallyall 4y ago
        > We only have shitty/best and one is 10x the price of the other. Such as? Every product I've considered buying in the past few years has more price points and options than ever before. Yes many of them are ultra-cheap, but plenty of mid-priced options as well. For example a new top of the line GoPro Hero11 is $550. However you can easily find other action cams anywhere from under $99 to $450, some of which are other GoPro products.
        • propogandist 4y ago
          gopro is commodity hardware with a lot of marketing and branding to try and command a premium purchase price
  • biomcgary 4y ago
    Planned obsolescence is the subscription model for physical goods.
  • wilg 4y ago
    Is there data on enshittification? I suspect people are overstating this. In theory making a product simpler and cheaper and lighter and easier to manufacture is better. The downside is (if it’s even true) reliability and “feel”.
    • kevviiinn 4y ago
      Better for who, exactly
      • wilg 4y ago
        Everyone
        • kevviiinn 4y ago
          Cheap goods that break and need to be replaced not only end up costing more through replacement and repair but also harm the environment through greater pollution and energy use due to more items being manufactured
          • wilg 4y ago
            Only if the replacement rate is higher than the cost of extra materials for each unit. Otherwise, the opposite is true.
            • kevviiinn 4y ago
              So you're saying that manufacturing a greater number of items does not use more energy? That doesn't sound quite right to me
              • wilg 4y ago
                Almost right. Manufacturing a greater number of items does not necessarily use more energy. For example, manufacturing 1,000,000 paperclips probably uses less energy and material than 1 car. Let's say you have a sturdy product with a 1% defect and replacement rate. You make 1000 of them. You have to replace 10 of them, so you've manufactured 1,010 of them in total. Let's say they each use 100 grams of material. You've used 101,000g of material. Now you redesign it to save 1 gram of weight, but it doubles the defect rate. Again, you make 1000 of them. You have to replace 20 of them, so you manufacture 1,020 of them. But because of the 1g material reduction per unit, you've used less material overall – 100,980g. These are just easy numbers to work with, but it's not hard to imagine many products might work like this. And the same calculation can be done for either energy or materials.
  • red-iron-pine 4y ago
    > mostly privately held Nah. Privately held means that they don't need to pander for next quarter's numbers. Publicly traded is always a race to the bottom.
• tedunangst 4y ago
  Why are you buying so many once per generation replacements? It's weird all your generational goods rolled over at the same time.
• lbwtaylor 4y ago
  The problem, is that as a consumer, it's become harder to know what a reliable product is. There are few reliable reviewers and companies change models constantly and change manufacturing processes of existing products. As a result, as a consumer i generally buy cheap because if I pay more I still may end up with a cheaply manufacturered product.
• AussieWog93 4y ago
  I run a pretty large online retail business, and the reality is that cheap tat sells an order of magnitude more in volume compared to higher quality, more expensive items. Consumers are impulsive[1], and get a genuine rush from spending money and receiving pretty packages. Things like listing rank (ie, being the top item in Best Match), eye-catching pictures and low prices, in that order, matter far more than how useful the product is, because the utility of the product itself is irrelevant to this kind of consumer. [1] Or, more specifically, the consumer dollar is impulsive. Non-impulsive people are far less likely to fritter away their money on cheap retail purchases.
  • jkepler 4y ago
    > [1] Or, more specifically, the consumer dollar is impulsive. This exactly. When folks buy the idea that their primary identity is as consumers, they loose the ability to resist all the psych-ops marketing constantly thrown at them (at least at those living in Occidental countries). In contrast, people who consider themselves first as creators---those who work to produce something of value, out of a desire to serve others through one's work (this is broader than just the 'creative class')---may be much more restrained and selective in their purchases. "Will this tool enable me to work more effectively?" "Will this item last long enough?"
    • dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      >In contrast, people who consider themselves first as creators---those who work to produce something of value, out of a desire to serve others through one's work (this is broader than just the 'creative class')---may be much more restrained and selective in their purchases. "Will this tool enable me to work more effectively?" "Will this item last long enough?" In my experience this is just the lie those people tell themselves to justify indulging in the same impulsive consumerist behavior albeit usually higher price points than the unwashed masses. Look at how HN and Reddit, examples of places dominated by upper middle class culture, fawn over the products and brand those demographics consider to be befitting them. It's the same exact kinds of statements and praises that you see the bluer collar crowd applying to different classes and price points of products in other filter bubbles.
• dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  20yr ago the full stack (engineering concept to slapping the shipping label on the box bound for the customer) cost of actually getting a product into buyers hands was sufficiently higher that it made lower quality versions of many things simply not economically viable to produce and sell. The range of options for any given consumer product has grown substantially on the low end.
• LinuxBender 4y ago
  I would love for someone who knows more about this to also explain to me why goods sold on Amazon, which 20 years ago would be something I need to replace once per generation seem to universally break within 1-2 years. That's better than what I have been experiencing. About half of the stuff I buy breaks right away. I leave them 1 star and comment on what happened. Amazon approves the reviews to my surprise. Some of the vendors will physically mail me a card offering $30+ for 5 stars. I find it interesting they are able to send me physical mail. I would avoid Amazon but I live in the middle of nowhere. That is one of the trade-offs I accepted by moving here. I try to utilize the local stores as much as I can.