5 ms·

It will be interesting how this develops. Right now EVs are just starting to become affordable. I wonder what would happen, once they reach the second hand mark

It will be interesting how this develops. Right now EVs are just starting to become affordable. I wonder what would happen, once they reach the second hand market. What about people who live in apartments with only street parking available? Cars are parked bumper to bumper. Will there be a charging dock every 2 meters on every single street?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Majority of housing in the US is single family homes. Some jurisdictions have mandated EV charging installs at multi family/apartments. More can. Tesla places superchargers in lots of places at grocery stores (conveniently allowing you to charge while you shop). Walmart is rolling out charging at thousands of stores. Power is everywhere, this is straightforward to solve for. 20% of EV sales in California this year, so far, are EVs. They are the 4th-5th largest economy in the world. Extrapolate accordingly. My previous comment on the topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35463224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35463224 https://electrek.co/2023/04/06/walmart-to-launch-coast-to-coast-ev-fast-charging-network/ https://electrek.co/2023/04/06/walmart-to-launch-coast-to-co... > Walmart already has nearly 1,300 EV fast-charging stations through a partnership with Electrify America installed across over 280 US retail locations. The new initiative will promote a coast-to-coast network across thousands of Walmart and Sams Club Stores by 2030, according to the retailer. > With a Walmart store or club located within 10 miles of roughly 90% of Americans, the EV fast-charging network will help increase access to affordable charging solutions as demand grows. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-07-29/biden-has-a-5-billion-plan-to-eliminate-america-s-ev-charging-deserts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-07-29/biden-has... (Biden Has a $5 Billion Plan to Eliminate America's EV Charging Deserts) https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/ (scope to your location on above maps)
- admax88qqq 3y ago
  Indeed. In my city I see plenty of Teslas parked on street parking with no charging connected. People just use the charging at grocery stores, downtown parking, their apartment building and seem to manage fine. Charging is slower than gas but the charging locations also seem to be more abundant which maybe balances out the time spent.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    You don't even need fast charging at some locations. 120V 20A outlets are sufficient at say, long term airport parking, as you'll charge to full over days before returning to your vehicle (and can get ~40-50 miles of range per 24 hours charging). Match charge rate infra to dwell time. Longer dwell = less infra needed as you can slow charge. Not every charging location needs to be able to draw MWs of current on demand.
    - worik 3y ago
      Do countries with 240v electricity charge faster? The Nissan Leaf owners get longer range than that here I think. Here has 240v
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        240v does charge faster than 120v and is also more efficient.
- numbers_guy 3y ago
  I am not saying it is going to be impossible. But it is definitely not an easy undertaking.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > Majority of housing in the US is single family homes. Some jurisdictions have mandated EV charging installs at multi family/apartments. More can. Tesla places superchargers in lots of places at grocery stores (conveniently allowing you to charge while you shop) The US is so backward on EVs it can't even agree on a plug standard for fast charging and there's nothing convenient about incompatible chargers. If the US wants to be serious about EVs then all chargers must charge all brands all the time on a common plug standard. Tesla's goofy "magic dock" is a half step available on some US Tesla chargers. It would be much better if Tesla switched to CCS type 1 Combo altogether in the US. The European Teslas are better cars purely because they're on the common plug standard and can charge on any charger with no adapters.
- pklausler 3y ago
  > 20% of EV sales in California this year, so far, are EVs. I bet it's a lot closer to 100%.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Too late to edit my typo unfortunately.
mabbo 3y ago
We should be careful about "but-what-about"s. There will be edge cases not covered. Fortunately, society and the economy are very good at adjusting to them. Buildings that don't offer charging stations will eventually be unable to find tenants unless they do something about it. They will find options.
wilg 3y ago
I think the incentives are well-structured for both public utilities and private industry to offer solutions for EV charging for apartment dwellers. A power connection with app-based billing (or something) on most streets seems perfectly doable. The electricity is probably already right there, relatively simple equipment, relatively easy to manage charging times and speeds for grid stability. I'm excited to see these solutions roll out, but I don't think it's going to be a big hurdle at all.
nicoburns 3y ago
> Will there be a charging dock every 2 meters on every single street? This exists on my street (residential neighbourhood in London) right now! Some of them are coming out of lampposts, others sprout from the floor. It's just a pilot scheme, so this doesn't exist in many places in the UK yet, but it seems to work pretty well. And the works to put them in didn't take very long.
fallingknife 3y ago
Norway hit 80% EV market penetration in 2022. The problem is solvable.
yamtaddle 3y ago
> Right now EVs are just starting to become affordable. We're lucky ("lucky") that the bar for affordable changed a whole bunch in the last few years. Used ICE cars getting wildly more expensive has made EVs seem like a less-terrible deal.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Majority of housing in the US is single family homes. Some jurisdictions have mandated EV charging installs at multi family/apartments. More can. Tesla places superchargers in lots of places at grocery stores (conveniently allowing you to charge while you shop). Walmart is rolling out charging at thousands of stores. Power is everywhere, this is straightforward to solve for. 20% of EV sales in California this year, so far, are EVs. They are the 4th-5th largest economy in the world. Extrapolate accordingly. My previous comment on the topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35463224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35463224 https://electrek.co/2023/04/06/walmart-to-launch-coast-to-coast-ev-fast-charging-network/ https://electrek.co/2023/04/06/walmart-to-launch-coast-to-co... > Walmart already has nearly 1,300 EV fast-charging stations through a partnership with Electrify America installed across over 280 US retail locations. The new initiative will promote a coast-to-coast network across thousands of Walmart and Sams Club Stores by 2030, according to the retailer. > With a Walmart store or club located within 10 miles of roughly 90% of Americans, the EV fast-charging network will help increase access to affordable charging solutions as demand grows. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-07-29/biden-has-a-5-billion-plan-to-eliminate-america-s-ev-charging-deserts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-07-29/biden-has... (Biden Has a $5 Billion Plan to Eliminate America's EV Charging Deserts) https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/ (scope to your location on above maps)

admax88qqq 3y ago
Indeed. In my city I see plenty of Teslas parked on street parking with no charging connected. People just use the charging at grocery stores, downtown parking, their apartment building and seem to manage fine. Charging is slower than gas but the charging locations also seem to be more abundant which maybe balances out the time spent.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  You don't even need fast charging at some locations. 120V 20A outlets are sufficient at say, long term airport parking, as you'll charge to full over days before returning to your vehicle (and can get ~40-50 miles of range per 24 hours charging). Match charge rate infra to dwell time. Longer dwell = less infra needed as you can slow charge. Not every charging location needs to be able to draw MWs of current on demand.
  - worik 3y ago
    Do countries with 240v electricity charge faster? The Nissan Leaf owners get longer range than that here I think. Here has 240v
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      240v does charge faster than 120v and is also more efficient.
numbers_guy 3y ago
I am not saying it is going to be impossible. But it is definitely not an easy undertaking.
clouddrover 3y ago
> Majority of housing in the US is single family homes. Some jurisdictions have mandated EV charging installs at multi family/apartments. More can. Tesla places superchargers in lots of places at grocery stores (conveniently allowing you to charge while you shop) The US is so backward on EVs it can't even agree on a plug standard for fast charging and there's nothing convenient about incompatible chargers. If the US wants to be serious about EVs then all chargers must charge all brands all the time on a common plug standard. Tesla's goofy "magic dock" is a half step available on some US Tesla chargers. It would be much better if Tesla switched to CCS type 1 Combo altogether in the US. The European Teslas are better cars purely because they're on the common plug standard and can charge on any charger with no adapters.
pklausler 3y ago
> 20% of EV sales in California this year, so far, are EVs. I bet it's a lot closer to 100%.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Too late to edit my typo unfortunately.

mabbo 3y ago

We should be careful about "but-what-about"s. There will be edge cases not covered. Fortunately, society and the economy are very good at adjusting to them. Buildings that don't offer charging stations will eventually be unable to find tenants unless they do something about it. They will find options.

wilg 3y ago

I think the incentives are well-structured for both public utilities and private industry to offer solutions for EV charging for apartment dwellers. A power connection with app-based billing (or something) on most streets seems perfectly doable. The electricity is probably already right there, relatively simple equipment, relatively easy to manage charging times and speeds for grid stability. I'm excited to see these solutions roll out, but I don't think it's going to be a big hurdle at all.

nicoburns 3y ago

> Will there be a charging dock every 2 meters on every single street? This exists on my street (residential neighbourhood in London) right now! Some of them are coming out of lampposts, others sprout from the floor. It's just a pilot scheme, so this doesn't exist in many places in the UK yet, but it seems to work pretty well. And the works to put them in didn't take very long.

fallingknife 3y ago

Norway hit 80% EV market penetration in 2022. The problem is solvable.

yamtaddle 3y ago

> Right now EVs are just starting to become affordable. We're lucky ("lucky") that the bar for affordable changed a whole bunch in the last few years. Used ICE cars getting wildly more expensive has made EVs seem like a less-terrible deal.