4 ms·

Re: Gaben quote - While there are some grains of truth to the quote, I think it’s oversimplifying the problem. After all, Gaben’s primary product is essentially

by 542458 4y ago

Re: Gaben quote - While there are some grains of truth to the quote, I think it’s oversimplifying the problem. After all, Gaben’s primary product is essentially a DRM platform (one of the first online DRM platforms for that matter!), evidently he believes he can’t compete with piracy on service quality alone. Continuing the game piracy line, game piracy is often a significantly worse service outside of the “free stuff” aspect. You have to learn how torrents work, download risky executable files from the internet, and/or run sketchy cracking utilities. VS Steam or GoG which are generally fairly polished experiences that offer nice value-adds (updating, social features, etc). Take Cyberpunk 2077 or The Witcher 3. You can buy a DRM free copy from GoG pretty easily… yet the torrents for it are still quite active from what I can see.

dcow 4y ago
You’re kinda arguing the same thing. Just because a torrent is active doesn't mean the volume is high or even remotely comparable to actual sales. For the right price, people will do what is most convenient, generally. The fact that Steam has DRM only matters to users here. Steam/GoG is easier than torrenting is easier than driving to the store. Sure, not everyone has $70 to drop on a AAA, but then you get into the copyleft argument that authors would still benefit by giving their content to people who cant afford the list price for a reduced price or even free since you wouldn’t have sold it at full price anyway so you’re missing out on the word of mouth marketing and any lower revenue paid.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> After all, Gaben’s primary product is essentially a DRM platform (one of the first online DRM platforms for that matter!), evidently he believes he can’t compete with piracy on service quality alone. He absolutely can. Steam is DRM but it's the least shitty DRM implementation I've ever seen. I get very angry when corporations start rolling their own shitty stores instead of just using Steam for everything. I have games on my account that used to be sold on Steam but aren't available anymore because the corporation made their own store. It's hard to describe how aggravating that is. Back in the day I'd buy games I already had on Steam just for the convenience of having them on Steam. There's a reason people don't remember what PC gaming used to be like before Steam and it's because Steam made them forget all about stuff like downloading multiple 500 MB incremental patches just to play online. Steam is essentially the Windows package manager.
skeaker 4y ago
I disagree, I think Gabe does genuinely believe service alone can prevent piracy. Steamworks DRM is opt-in for developers and easily broken (which we have to assume is intentional because Valve definitely has the means to make something stronger). People like to assume that a game being on Steam automatically equates to it having DRM, but there are a number of games in my library that can be copied to a thumb stick or any other drive once they're installed and work fine forever just like you would do with a GOG game. The existence of Steamworks always seemed more like a placebo to ease developers onto the platform than anything.
ilyt 3y ago
> After all, Gaben’s primary product is essentially a DRM platform (one of the first online DRM platforms for that matter!), evidently he believes he can’t compete with piracy on service quality alone. Steam DRM is entirely optional and not required to put the game on Steam. DRM is game developer choice, steam is just giving a (shitty, easily breakable) option. > Take Cyberpunk 2077 or The Witcher 3. You can buy a DRM free copy from GoG pretty easily… yet the torrents for it are still quite active from what I can see. Well, some people won't start paying even if they have means. And some will not have enough money to ever say "okay I will actually buy game instead of putting it towards updating my rig". Question is really how many of those would be converted vs. just not play the game, especially now where there is plenty of F2P stuff, or insane value bundles or sales.

by 542458 4y ago

dcow 4y ago

You’re kinda arguing the same thing. Just because a torrent is active doesn't mean the volume is high or even remotely comparable to actual sales. For the right price, people will do what is most convenient, generally. The fact that Steam has DRM only matters to users here. Steam/GoG is easier than torrenting is easier than driving to the store. Sure, not everyone has $70 to drop on a AAA, but then you get into the copyleft argument that authors would still benefit by giving their content to people who cant afford the list price for a reduced price or even free since you wouldn’t have sold it at full price anyway so you’re missing out on the word of mouth marketing and any lower revenue paid.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> After all, Gaben’s primary product is essentially a DRM platform (one of the first online DRM platforms for that matter!), evidently he believes he can’t compete with piracy on service quality alone. He absolutely can. Steam is DRM but it's the least shitty DRM implementation I've ever seen. I get very angry when corporations start rolling their own shitty stores instead of just using Steam for everything. I have games on my account that used to be sold on Steam but aren't available anymore because the corporation made their own store. It's hard to describe how aggravating that is. Back in the day I'd buy games I already had on Steam just for the convenience of having them on Steam. There's a reason people don't remember what PC gaming used to be like before Steam and it's because Steam made them forget all about stuff like downloading multiple 500 MB incremental patches just to play online. Steam is essentially the Windows package manager.

skeaker 4y ago

I disagree, I think Gabe does genuinely believe service alone can prevent piracy. Steamworks DRM is opt-in for developers and easily broken (which we have to assume is intentional because Valve definitely has the means to make something stronger). People like to assume that a game being on Steam automatically equates to it having DRM, but there are a number of games in my library that can be copied to a thumb stick or any other drive once they're installed and work fine forever just like you would do with a GOG game. The existence of Steamworks always seemed more like a placebo to ease developers onto the platform than anything.

ilyt 3y ago

> After all, Gaben’s primary product is essentially a DRM platform (one of the first online DRM platforms for that matter!), evidently he believes he can’t compete with piracy on service quality alone. Steam DRM is entirely optional and not required to put the game on Steam. DRM is game developer choice, steam is just giving a (shitty, easily breakable) option. > Take Cyberpunk 2077 or The Witcher 3. You can buy a DRM free copy from GoG pretty easily… yet the torrents for it are still quite active from what I can see. Well, some people won't start paying even if they have means. And some will not have enough money to ever say "okay I will actually buy game instead of putting it towards updating my rig". Question is really how many of those would be converted vs. just not play the game, especially now where there is plenty of F2P stuff, or insane value bundles or sales.