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> Then again, I did come to Europe for the rich history, I just didn't think its inhabitants would be so bound by it. Europe is run as a continent-sized retire

• courgette 4y ago
  I earn roughly 4 times in the US what I would earn in France. Not a small difference. I’m still going back. Also, absurds costs of things in the US makes giant salary not that giant as soon as you get kids and plan to provide them with an educations. Regarding future, my very personal take is that European population will be vastly more resilient to what is coming. (TM) I’m concerned about the fabric of society itself in the US. You mention future, it’s unclear what’s in it for the USA. Europeans societies have been thought shit not that long ago and survived somewhat united. The US last crisis was at home was idk? the civil war? But i’m sure I’m being dramatic. None the less, it’s jarring. I don’t want to grow old here and have my kids growing up in a Us culture first. Again; my personal take. My goal was to shine some lights on the other side POV.
  • ethanbond 4y ago
    The US is in a perpetual state of internal turmoil. "The good ol' days" never existed. It's very likely the other side of the same "dynamism" coin that produces much of the innovation/growth/power that the US has accumulated. The Vietnam War was a domestic crisis that involved thousands of domestic terror bombings all across the country, for example.
    • potbelly83 4y ago
      Yep people who think the US was once some stable well run country need a good history lesson. This comes from an immigrant to the US happy to grow old here.
      • courgette 4y ago
        Sure. This has been a shit show since inception. And just looking at any US city outskirts is telling. Also, let’s remember the position of the US in both early WW1 and Ww2. Faschism & racism are not new additions. But is it getting better? How is the trend in regard metrics like Gini coefficient and wealth repartition? What is better before ? Yes, until the 80s, the IRS and middle class were still a thing. I wonders what will happen to channel future discontentments. What would be the outlets. My concern is that once it’s become absolutely clear that upward mobility is broken for most, what will be the recourse of the folks left over in the dust?
    • tomcam 4y ago
      > thousands of domestic terror bombings all across the country The memory-holing of these bombings fascinates me.
      • ls612 4y ago
        Leftist terror violence doesn’t fit the narrative for today’s elites.
        • courgette 4y ago
          Oh I remember when terrorist were white and either super Christian, or at least raise Christian. IRA of course, but also ETA or the Brigatte rosse in France, Spain and Italy. What does not fit the narrative ? I see that narrative popping back in French news today with protests against specific water collection stategies ( not the retirement stuff, other protests ) being labeled as “eco-terrorism”. It looks that any resistance to the capitalism model of land & resource management will be labeled that way going forward ( in France. in the US I’m waiting to see what happen with cop city near Atlanta. As of now nobody heard of it )
          • ls612 4y ago
            In the US the bombings and domestic terrorism and assassinations in the late 60s and 70s were generally done by left wing groups like SDS, weather underground, etc. I’m not as familiar with what happened in Europe around that time beyond the IRA.
            • courgette 4y ago
              Leftist groups. Mostly. Leaning toward communism like the Red Brigades I mentioned. Their motto was bombing stuff, and kidnap/kill politicians. A famous group was “the Bader band” for instance. Acting between Italy, France, and Germany. Then, they were the independentist group like ETA ( basque people ) and FLN ( Corsica ) Same modus operandis, but geared toward having France and Spain out of their places. Thanks for the name, I will look those group up. No right wing group in the US ? We had some in France. For instance in 62 the “quarteron Francais” try to top De Gaule after he decided to let go of Algeria.
    • Teever 4y ago
      And those domestic terror bombings are equivalent to like what a day or so of what Europe experienced in world war 2?
  • tomcam 4y ago
    > European population will be vastly more resilient to what is coming. (TM) Could be, considering how much the US pays in military protection for Europe (money I'd be happy to stop spending)
    • courgette 4y ago
      I was appalled when sarkozy put France back in NATO, if that make you feel better. Even in the current geopolitical context I would preferred the US to get out of our hairs. That would probably smack some sense into EU in regards to a shared defense. Weirdly enough, none of our politicians, or yours except trump, seems to be super into the idea. I guess NATO yield some dividends, too? But I was more thinking at resilient community of civilians. Living in village / small town that are livable without that much inputs from the “grid” and without driving miles and miles( because they were build before that support system even existed ) Also, communities where living together is seen as normal, not some hippie or comunist idea. As a result, elder citizen can lives longer there without need for adhoc care. It’s cheaper to raise kids. Food is cheaper and of better quality. ( farmer markets are where poor people buy food, for instance, not a fancy place for organic ware ) My observations are of rural US and rural France. Of course I’m biased.
      • ihatepython 4y ago
        If they get rid of NATO then they lose their jobs. NATO needs an enemy to justify their existence. Hence, Russia.
    • NicoJuicy 4y ago
      Europe buys US military too, i wouldn't underestimate the costs of the f-35 for each country in Europe :) It's part buying military assets, but it's also the protection that comes with it.
    • mytailorisrich 4y ago
      The US do not spend this out of their generous hearts. This buys them power and control over Europe. They do that for themselves (of course, all countries look after themselves)
  • dekervin 4y ago
    Your username is awesome. Also what made you go to the US? I am just curious
    • courgette 4y ago
      A woman, what else? A woman, and obtuse immigration laws. She was not able to stay longer in France. And long distance sucks.
      • mytailorisrich 4y ago
        But then you had to endure everyone calling you zucchini.
        • courgette 4y ago
          It sounds so much better! Haha
  • selfmodruntime 4y ago
    I agree. For a country of patriots, the US has 0% of inner unity. To each their own is what most Americans seem to live by, and I’m sure 9/11 was the first and last time the country United.
    • courgette 4y ago
      Ah, thanks for pointing that out. It sounds super cheesy but I miss common space where people play / mingle / relax / drink. Like a freaking plaza with table and chair and benches. Those exists of course, just further far and between. It’s counter intuitive because folk from the US are incredibly friendly and open. Super easy to talk to.
  • petre 4y ago
    > Regarding future, my very personal take is that European population will be vastly more resilient to what is coming. (TM) Yup, thanks to the US and UK who saved our asses in WW2 but were then forced to give up Eastern and a large part of Central Europe to the USSR. Fortunately it's also the US who made the USSR bankrupt themselves and let those people mind their own business. And now it's also the usual suspects pumping cash and weapons into Ukraine. At least France has got nukes and a well equipped standing army, which I could not say about other EU states with the possible exception of Poland and maybe the Scandinavians.
    • courgette 4y ago
      As much as the USSR was an unpleasant character. Stating “thanks to the Us and the Uk” without mentioning the role of the red army in the victory against nazi germany is vastly inaccurate. Just the fact that Germany had to handle two fronts, one of them exclusively fought by USSR should be an indicator of that. Recent unwrapping of historical communication also show that the US army decide to use nuclear weapon on Japan to end the war; not that much because dragging war is bad for civilian. But also because the red army was starting to pivot to the Asian front. Being done with Europe. Also, I was mainly talking about village / neighborhood knowing each other and not being as divided as here. But that’s still an interesting point.
• spyremeown 4y ago
  >So many of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck on absurdly low salaries Let me tell you about third world countries...
• version_five 4y ago
  My take is that a lot of Europe has not gone for growth-at-all-cost, in particular with immigration, and so has offset lower salaries with more manageable social programs and lower cost of living generally. There are downsides, but "managed decline" is not necessarily a bad thing. I think western europe is actually going to become an increasingly popular destination for people leaving US + commonwealth countries.
• lawn 4y ago
  > I feel for the people of Europe; they deserve better. So many of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck on absurdly low salaries in countries without any obvious future other than managed decline. That's funny, because I feel similar for people in the US. Sure, people in tech have high salaries, but then you have to deal with the insane health care, idiotic prison system and half the country supporting an openly fascist and lying president (among other things).
  • sideshowb 4y ago
    And longer hours and a lot less holiday.
  • troad 4y ago
    > an openly fascist and lying president (among other things). Oh, have Georgia Meloni, Victor Orban and Recep Erdogan hopped over from Europe? Must have missed that.
    • ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      Yeah this is the double standard here. Whenever US haters on HN compare the US to Europe they only compares it to France, Germany, Sweden, etc. to prove that the EU is a better place to live, but forget that the EU also has Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.
      • lawn 4y ago
        Actually I was responding to a "EU hater", who makes the mistake you're complaining about, but in reverse.
      • gumballindie 4y ago
        This comment here is proof that europe is stuck in the past. The countries you mentioned are all vastly more developed than most of the world yet somehow you feel the need to remind folks that they lag behind others in europe. And no wonder they do considering how hostile europeans are towards them.
• emptyfile 4y ago
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• ojhughes 4y ago
  Speak for yourself, everyone I know here is quite happy on their “low salaries” and wouldn’t move to the US
• PH01 4y ago
  > I feel for the people of Europe; they deserve better. So many of the smart, lovely people you meet here are stuck on absurdly low salaries in countries without any obvious future other than managed decline. Instead of being offered a future, they're offered endless relitigation of the past. Most of the Europeans I know leave the US as soon as they have kids. Everyone seems to prefer managed decline rather than having their kids attend lessons on what to do if a man with a gun comes into school.
  • selfmodruntime 4y ago
    Agreed. There is no real discourse on guns in the US. It’s not maniacs, mental health or politics. It’s guns. Every discussion on the gun problem leads to vague mentions of better mental health or going back to communal communities. Country’s with far cheaper healthcare can’t solve the mental illness problem, only our lunatics have can’t walk into a store and buy a firearm.
• davidjones332 4y ago
  [flagged]
• anonzzzies 4y ago
  No need to feel sorry; perfectly happy not living in the US and making my absurdly low salary.