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I see 3 kind of people, all common on HN: - The luddites: it's just hype. - The doomers: AI will kill us all. - The AI indie hackers: dunno about AI, I'm try

I see 3 kind of people, all common on HN: - The luddites: it's just hype. - The doomers: AI will kill us all. - The AI indie hackers: dunno about AI, I'm trying to make money with it. Somehow the intersection is right: AI is not really smart, but it will replace a lot of human activity anyhow.

mlyle 3y ago
Yah. I mean, a lot of human activity in employment is not really smart. Anything that you can make into a fairly formulaic job for someone who's not really interested in doing it or improving too much is probably not very intellectually demanding (but perhaps may be a bit demanding in world perception or actuation than current AI/robotics systems). And I believe that is "most jobs."
aldousd666 3y ago
You forgot about the rest of us. Developers who are interested in the subject and want to read about the latest developments and techniques. We're actually interested in the computer science.
Mordisquitos 3y ago
I would argue that a true luddite towards AI needs a corollary: - The luddites: it's just hype — because I will kill it with fire before it takes over.
unshavedyak 3y ago
> Somehow the intersection is right: AI is not really smart, but it will replace a lot of human activity anyhow. Which will really show how much busywork we humans do in a lot of areas. If -- before AI is "smart" -- it can impact humanity.. well, i feel it says more about our current society foundations than it does AI heh.
- throwaway049 3y ago
  Microsoft is bringing OpenAI into Office 365. I predict no loss of employment in busywork, just a bigger output of boring reports per worker.
  - chongli 3y ago
    “The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.” And we thought there was an epidemic of bullshit jobs before! Not only will everyone be spending their days churning out this garbage, but everyone will be forced to read it as well! This is not the dystopia I had in mind! It’s much more boring and missing the cool mirrored shades.
    - inanutshellus 3y ago
      You don't read it, you just ask a bot to tell you what's in it. ;-)
dsfyu404ed 3y ago
There's also a lot of faux-intellectual attention grifters who don't really have any beliefs other than whatever the local kool-aid is and will say whatever gets the number in the top right to go up because that makes monkey brain feel good. These types of participants are the most easily simulated with AI because they're (whether they know it or not) just optimizing for a variable, something that existing AI tech is pretty good at so I expect their numbers to explode before the other three types you listed.
dmreedy 3y ago
For what it's worth, and at the risk of sounding like I'm nitpicking, traditional Luddism is not dismissal of technology as overhyped or smoke-and-mirrors. Quite the opposite; the technology is recognized as very real and very impactful. The question instead becomes, "what happens to us, the ones it replaces?". And at least in the original incarnation, given an insufficiently satisfying answer, you smash some looms up to try and slow the encroachment of automation.
- newswasboring 3y ago
  Agreed. That makes the AI will kill us all crowd the real luddites for this topic.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    No the real luddites would the one who are attempting to kill AI before it hatches.
    - newswasboring 3y ago
      I am guessing people who think AI is such an existential threat will try to kill it. It would be irrational not to
- gspencley 3y ago
  From a historical standpoint, you're spot on. Neo-Luddism is still opposition to a lot of modern technologies, but for a very disparate set of reasons. For example, many oppose the mass adoption of social media due to perceived mental health and social impacts. Others oppose smart phones and "screen addiction." These things can qualify as "neo-luddism" even though the opposition is not rooted in job displacement. I've often said that I am myself becoming more and more of a "neo-luddite" but it's purely for personal reasons. I don't want to see social media or smart phones disappear as I couldn't care less about what other people do with their lives. I just find that the older I get, the less I want to use modern tech in general. It might just be burnout and boredom. I am now middle aged and I've been coding since I was 10. I used to be extremely enthusiastic about technology but as time progresses I have less and less interest in it. The industry in which I have based my entire career just doesn't excite me anymore. Today I just couldn't care less about ChatGPT / "AI" / LLMs, Bitcoin, smart phones, video games, social media, fintech etc. In my free time I find myself doing more things like reading books, going hiking in the backcountry and pursuing craft-related hobbies like performing stage magic with my wife and partner.
jasondigitized 3y ago
There's a 4th - AI is a bicycle and I am riding the bicycle more and more every day.
cabirum 3y ago
- the realists: it's just a stochastic parrot spitting regurgitated content back at you. Good at summarizing search results. Unreliable and will never be. A toy. Do not use if errors are expensive.
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
- The realists: what do LLM's actually do, and what are their limits - The luddites: who is going to benefit from LLM's and who will suffer more? - The doomers: AI will kill us all - The children: look at this! look at me! look at this! Wheeeeee! - The money: how many people can we pay less or not at all thanks to AI - The scientists: ok, that's cool, but what happens if we ...
- Karellen 3y ago
  Also: - The scammers - how many well-meaning people can we use an LLM to build meaningful (to them) relationships with, to the point where they're willing to just send us money? - The griefers - how much discord can an LLM create, for the lulz? (to be fair, those might be subsets of "realists", but I think they're important subsets)
- danaris 3y ago
  And the "true believers": AI will lead to the singularity, which we must try to accelerate by any means necessary so it can be our new God.
kelseyfrog 3y ago
In the circles I'm in 2019(GPT-2-era) AI was seen through the lens of the artist as a new sort of artistic tool - something that could enable new forms of expression and take media to places it had never gone before. Sometime toward the end of the diffusion days though, the property rights scissor cut through the community. The conflict had a dramatic cooling effect on AI-created/assisted content. I just think it's neat how the perception of AI shifts depending on proximity.

mlyle 3y ago

Yah. I mean, a lot of human activity in employment is not really smart. Anything that you can make into a fairly formulaic job for someone who's not really interested in doing it or improving too much is probably not very intellectually demanding (but perhaps may be a bit demanding in world perception or actuation than current AI/robotics systems). And I believe that is "most jobs."

aldousd666 3y ago

You forgot about the rest of us. Developers who are interested in the subject and want to read about the latest developments and techniques. We're actually interested in the computer science.

Mordisquitos 3y ago

I would argue that a true luddite towards AI needs a corollary: - The luddites: it's just hype — because I will kill it with fire before it takes over.

unshavedyak 3y ago

> Somehow the intersection is right: AI is not really smart, but it will replace a lot of human activity anyhow. Which will really show how much busywork we humans do in a lot of areas. If -- before AI is "smart" -- it can impact humanity.. well, i feel it says more about our current society foundations than it does AI heh.

throwaway049 3y ago
Microsoft is bringing OpenAI into Office 365. I predict no loss of employment in busywork, just a bigger output of boring reports per worker.
- chongli 3y ago
  “The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.” And we thought there was an epidemic of bullshit jobs before! Not only will everyone be spending their days churning out this garbage, but everyone will be forced to read it as well! This is not the dystopia I had in mind! It’s much more boring and missing the cool mirrored shades.
  - inanutshellus 3y ago
    You don't read it, you just ask a bot to tell you what's in it. ;-)

dsfyu404ed 3y ago

There's also a lot of faux-intellectual attention grifters who don't really have any beliefs other than whatever the local kool-aid is and will say whatever gets the number in the top right to go up because that makes monkey brain feel good. These types of participants are the most easily simulated with AI because they're (whether they know it or not) just optimizing for a variable, something that existing AI tech is pretty good at so I expect their numbers to explode before the other three types you listed.

dmreedy 3y ago

For what it's worth, and at the risk of sounding like I'm nitpicking, traditional Luddism is not dismissal of technology as overhyped or smoke-and-mirrors. Quite the opposite; the technology is recognized as very real and very impactful. The question instead becomes, "what happens to us, the ones it replaces?". And at least in the original incarnation, given an insufficiently satisfying answer, you smash some looms up to try and slow the encroachment of automation.

newswasboring 3y ago
Agreed. That makes the AI will kill us all crowd the real luddites for this topic.
- peteradio 3y ago
  No the real luddites would the one who are attempting to kill AI before it hatches.
  - newswasboring 3y ago
    I am guessing people who think AI is such an existential threat will try to kill it. It would be irrational not to
gspencley 3y ago
From a historical standpoint, you're spot on. Neo-Luddism is still opposition to a lot of modern technologies, but for a very disparate set of reasons. For example, many oppose the mass adoption of social media due to perceived mental health and social impacts. Others oppose smart phones and "screen addiction." These things can qualify as "neo-luddism" even though the opposition is not rooted in job displacement. I've often said that I am myself becoming more and more of a "neo-luddite" but it's purely for personal reasons. I don't want to see social media or smart phones disappear as I couldn't care less about what other people do with their lives. I just find that the older I get, the less I want to use modern tech in general. It might just be burnout and boredom. I am now middle aged and I've been coding since I was 10. I used to be extremely enthusiastic about technology but as time progresses I have less and less interest in it. The industry in which I have based my entire career just doesn't excite me anymore. Today I just couldn't care less about ChatGPT / "AI" / LLMs, Bitcoin, smart phones, video games, social media, fintech etc. In my free time I find myself doing more things like reading books, going hiking in the backcountry and pursuing craft-related hobbies like performing stage magic with my wife and partner.

jasondigitized 3y ago

There's a 4th - AI is a bicycle and I am riding the bicycle more and more every day.

cabirum 3y ago

- the realists: it's just a stochastic parrot spitting regurgitated content back at you. Good at summarizing search results. Unreliable and will never be. A toy. Do not use if errors are expensive.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

- The realists: what do LLM's actually do, and what are their limits - The luddites: who is going to benefit from LLM's and who will suffer more? - The doomers: AI will kill us all - The children: look at this! look at me! look at this! Wheeeeee! - The money: how many people can we pay less or not at all thanks to AI - The scientists: ok, that's cool, but what happens if we ...

Karellen 3y ago
Also: - The scammers - how many well-meaning people can we use an LLM to build meaningful (to them) relationships with, to the point where they're willing to just send us money? - The griefers - how much discord can an LLM create, for the lulz? (to be fair, those might be subsets of "realists", but I think they're important subsets)
danaris 3y ago
And the "true believers": AI will lead to the singularity, which we must try to accelerate by any means necessary so it can be our new God.

kelseyfrog 3y ago

In the circles I'm in 2019(GPT-2-era) AI was seen through the lens of the artist as a new sort of artistic tool - something that could enable new forms of expression and take media to places it had never gone before. Sometime toward the end of the diffusion days though, the property rights scissor cut through the community. The conflict had a dramatic cooling effect on AI-created/assisted content. I just think it's neat how the perception of AI shifts depending on proximity.