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> had no meaningful logical reasoning or problem solving skills This is 70% of software development, this is why I think people from the hard sciences often ma

> had no meaningful logical reasoning or problem solving skills This is 70% of software development, this is why I think people from the hard sciences often make better software engineers (in the true engineering sense of the word) than people actually trained in CS. Most CS folks can't experiment their way out of a paper bag.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Probably because CS now has become synonymous with CRUD web development.
- nerpderp82 3y ago
  I am talking about BigTech top 10 CS school grads. They literally don't understand the scientific method or how to use mathematics to design their systems.
dr-smooth 3y ago
I take huge exception with this remark. I graduated with a BS and MS engineering at a top-20 US engineering school. I also earned an MS at a top-25 computer science program. I found the CS program dramatically more challenging. My CS classmates were some of the brightest problem solvers I've ever worked with in my life. Then in my career, I have worked alongside some brilliant software developers who had academic backgrounds in non-technical fields like history or English. I don't know if there's a way to assess someone's problem solving ability based on their field of academic study. It would seem that those from science and engineering fields (CS inclusive) would generally fare better. Your dismissive comment about "most CS folks" is just offensive.
- nerpderp82 3y ago
  You are a data point of one, and I have no idea how well you can apply the scientific method to solve problems and understand the state of your system. I am not judging you, my statement was a generalization. I would also say, most people in the hard sciences that are not CS cannot code their way out of a paper bag. I agree with you, some of the best, most rigorous thinkers I have come across had a liberal arts background. This isn't a quantitative statement about the kinds of people, but the things they focus on. I think CS is hard, but one thing that seems to be repeated is that super capable people can get by operating in an unscientific open-loop fashion which causes cognitive blind spots, and those blind spots are in using experimentation and the scientific method to solve problems.
nyarlathotep_ 3y ago
> This is 70% of software development Which is why I refuse to use the term "Software Engineer." Sorry, Java CRUD and copy-pasted React snippets from SO are the furthest thing from an engineering discipline. MOST jobs are web development, even if you're a "backend" developer. There probably is some legitimate engineering in embedded or development that requires an authentic scientific and engineering background, but considering the majority of code written is CRUD stuff...that ain't it.
- 908B64B197 3y ago
  > There probably is some legitimate engineering in embedded or development that requires an authentic scientific and engineering background, but considering the majority of code written is CRUD stuff...that ain't it. I suppose the OS, database, networking and infrastructure to run those CRUD apps as well as the languages and runtimes magically appeared out of nowhere.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

Probably because CS now has become synonymous with CRUD web development.

nerpderp82 3y ago
I am talking about BigTech top 10 CS school grads. They literally don't understand the scientific method or how to use mathematics to design their systems.

dr-smooth 3y ago

I take huge exception with this remark. I graduated with a BS and MS engineering at a top-20 US engineering school. I also earned an MS at a top-25 computer science program. I found the CS program dramatically more challenging. My CS classmates were some of the brightest problem solvers I've ever worked with in my life. Then in my career, I have worked alongside some brilliant software developers who had academic backgrounds in non-technical fields like history or English. I don't know if there's a way to assess someone's problem solving ability based on their field of academic study. It would seem that those from science and engineering fields (CS inclusive) would generally fare better. Your dismissive comment about "most CS folks" is just offensive.

nerpderp82 3y ago
You are a data point of one, and I have no idea how well you can apply the scientific method to solve problems and understand the state of your system. I am not judging you, my statement was a generalization. I would also say, most people in the hard sciences that are not CS cannot code their way out of a paper bag. I agree with you, some of the best, most rigorous thinkers I have come across had a liberal arts background. This isn't a quantitative statement about the kinds of people, but the things they focus on. I think CS is hard, but one thing that seems to be repeated is that super capable people can get by operating in an unscientific open-loop fashion which causes cognitive blind spots, and those blind spots are in using experimentation and the scientific method to solve problems.

nyarlathotep_ 3y ago

> This is 70% of software development Which is why I refuse to use the term "Software Engineer." Sorry, Java CRUD and copy-pasted React snippets from SO are the furthest thing from an engineering discipline. MOST jobs are web development, even if you're a "backend" developer. There probably is some legitimate engineering in embedded or development that requires an authentic scientific and engineering background, but considering the majority of code written is CRUD stuff...that ain't it.

908B64B197 3y ago
> There probably is some legitimate engineering in embedded or development that requires an authentic scientific and engineering background, but considering the majority of code written is CRUD stuff...that ain't it. I suppose the OS, database, networking and infrastructure to run those CRUD apps as well as the languages and runtimes magically appeared out of nowhere.