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Food miles is a great example of an oversimplification that actually hurts a cause. Just because something pollutes more in a single dimension, doesn't mean the
by ivankirigin 18y ago
Food miles is a great example of an oversimplification that actually hurts a cause. Just because something pollutes more in a single dimension, doesn't mean the total pollution from 30 different aspects of the production is less.
But a single number is so easy to understand, people latch on to it.
Add to this to repulsive, smug attitude of some people, and I get doubly annoyed.
- biohacker42 18y agoFood miles is a great example of an oversimplification that actually hurts a cause. Exactly!
- callmeed 18y agoSo true. It's not just oversimplification but also that these causes become fads quicker than the data can be collected in order to verify. "Locavore" was Oxford's word of the year in 2007.
- alecco 18y agoI call Fallacy of Accident. The guy only reasons special cases. It's not an absolute truth but there is some relative truth in many cases of food transport. IMHO, the environmental cost should be added to the price tag in some way. The situation is similar to throwing garbage in public spaces. Also note our minds tend to find ways to justify our actions when something we do bothers our conscience or sense of justice.
- ivankirigin 18y agoPrice of production incorporates cost of energy. The price of a product can be a great indicator of cost to the environment. If you want to increase the cost of producing energy intensive foods, the solution is to tax energy usage or carbon - NOT to somehow measure the environmental impact of each product directly. Such a bureaucracy would surely waste more resources than it saves.
- alecco 18y agoThe cost of energy doesn't offset the carbon emissions. You know what's worse? It wouldn't be that bad in the final price you pay, it's usually around 2-3%.
- ivankirigin 18y agoIncreasing energy prices through taxation lowers demand, drives money into research into now relatively cheaper alternatives. Buying carbon offsets doesn't do anything. The money a government collects on these taxes should go directly to funding research in viable alternatives.
- alecco 18y agoThere are many viable solutions right now for carbon offsetting. Financing electricity projects in the third world can decrease their carbon emissions significantly. This is quite often just financing powerlines and water network. Or just a small dam and generator somewhere. You don't need research for ethical progress. And this would help the whole world economy as it creates and promotes wealth.
- ivankirigin 18y agoIt doesn't actually solve the problem. We already know the solution: a technology cheaper than coal to generate electricity and a technology cheaper than gasoline for energy storage and transport. Helping third world nations is great. But it doesn't actually solve the problem.
- alecco 18y agoYou talk like it's mutually exclusive.
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- wmf 18y agoCorrectly accounting the carbon (if it could be done accurately) would produce a better number than food-miles. And then if you add a carbon tax, in theory the supply chain would account for it automatically and the only number you'd need is price.
- ivankirigin 18y agoExactly. I commented in the other reply before reading this. You said it better than I did.
- bjelkeman-again 18y agoYep. The problem with carbon tax is to get it implemented widely enough, so that you just don't displace the pollution to somewhere else. We have something similar today. In China it is nearly free to pollute, to have jobs with shitty work conditions. You could probably not run a factory in a country where the high tech goods (like iPhones) are being bought, the way you can in China. Because we don't have similar requirements for pollution, work environment etc. we have essentially pushed all the "unacceptable" behaviour to somewhere where it isn't "taxed" the same where as we would have. Maybe we just have to do it anyway, but it is going to be a problem.
- wmf 18y agoCrypto-protectionists would have a field day. Since China hasn't adopted the carbon tax, we have to impose high import duties on all their goods...
- netcan 18y agoEven there you will run into issues.
- ojbyrne 18y agoHere in Canada, the Liberal party recently ran on the platform of a carbon tax ("The Green Shift"). They lost badly. People just heard "tax." It's not entirely a clear data point, because they also had a leader perceived as weak. But the carbon tax was a big part of why he was perceived as weak.
- Prrometheus 18y agoEnvironmentalism is a religion. It is hard to get heard if you disagree with the entrenched dogma, even if your ideas are better for the environment.