4 ms·

Is this one of those sentiments people like to say until the monkey's paw curls and they too find out they are mediocre?

hef19898 4y ago
By definition, half of us are under the median.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  > By definition, half of us are under the median. Given that no one can agree how to measure, I'd bet that most of us are.
  - moate 4y ago
    No, don’t do that, now you’ve upset math. Or rather: I’ll mortgage my house and put my life savings on the line against that bet.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      Nobody specified what measure the median was made against - or that skill is involved in any way - so it’s still possible. Brought to you by another chapter in the book Recreational Arguments.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      Shame about your house and life savings. One man's brilliance is another man's "who wrote this crap?" It is indeed quite likely that most of us, possibly even all of us, will fall below the median of someone's measure.
      - everforward 4y ago
        They're making a math joke. It's impossible for more than half of the sample to be below the median since the median is constructed so that half fall on each side. Having 60% of a sample below the median means someone calculated the median wrong.
        randomdata 4y ago
        > It's impossible for more than half of the sample to be below the median No. It is very much possible when the measure is undefined, as was the condition setup before the bet was made. If we take it to the logical end where your chosen measure is simply the inverse of my chosen measure, then those above the median by my measure fall below the median by your measure and vice versa, leaving the entire set of those outside of the median to be seen below the median (and also above the median). As it pertains to the larger discussion, how the quality of a developer is measured has not been established, which means everyone is likely to measure differently and often in conflicting ways, and so most of us are bound to be below the median according to someone. So, yes, this was originally pointed out in a humorous manner. The bet made on the basis of that joke was, indeed, unfortunate.
        everforward 4y ago
        > No. It is very much possible when the measure is undefined, as was the condition setup before the bet was made. I promise you, it's not, because that's not how medians work. This is the Wikipedia definition of a median: > In statistics and probability theory, the median is the value separating the higher half from the lower half of a data sample, a population, or a probability distribution. There have to be half on each side or it's not a median. The mean doesn't have to be distributed like that, but the median does. It doesn't matter if the measure is undefined; the median divides the upper half from the lower half. There are always 50% on each side (and one on the median, if there are an odd number of samples). > If we take it to the logical end where your chosen measure is simply the inverse of my chosen measure, then those above the median by my measure fall below the median by your measure and vice versa, leaving the entire set of those outside of the median to be seen below the median (and also above the median). Sure, but that's not a median. That's the intersection of people above 2 separate medians of 2 separate measures. You can't combine the median of separate measures and have it still be median; you can combine the measures into a single measure and that has a median where half are above and half are below. > As it pertains to the larger discussion, how the quality of a developer is measured has not been established, which means everyone is likely to measure differently and often in conflicting ways, and so most of us are bound to be below the median according to someone. Totally agree there, I'm just beating a pedantic, dead horse that that's not a measure (it's a bunch), and it doesn't have "a" median (it has a bunch). You're talking about the intersection of people above the medians of a bunch of measurements, which doesn't share any of the properties of a median or being above/below it.
      - moate 4y ago
        Your sampling is flawed then. If you're arguing for some quantum metric that could make me lose it, you're for some reason not providing the word "us" with the same leverage which puts us into a situation we should just default to the literal definition of median since there's literally no way to prove (or disprove) your point. But sure, you've proven you can buzzkill anything, so you win!
        randomdata 4y ago
        As was said by the parent commenter (drewcoo) just before you placed your bet, because no measure is established, each evaluator is bound to have a different opinion of how to measure a developer, and as a result most developers are likely to fall below the median (according to someone's measure). There is no mathematical contradiction. Perhaps a misunderstanding on your part? Either way, the bet was lost. Time for drewcoo to reap the rewards.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  But is that a useful measure? By definition half of the astronauts who went to the moon are under the "astronauts who went to the moon" skill median.
  - sumedh 4y ago
    All those astronauts had to pass some kind uniform skill test by NASA. There is no uniform skill tests for all the Devs.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      Well, I was just trying to point out that median is a silly measure, but now we're really comparing apples to oranges. Every astronaut is not a NASA astronaut and so they haven't had to undergo a uniform skill test but there are still excellent odds that every astronaut is qualified for their role even if they are below the median "astronaut". Yes, it could be argued that every space agency has some sort of test, but the same could be argued of every employed dev as they'll have had to pass an interview. Again, not saying that every dev is a good dev, but that median is a silly measure.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        The median does apply to NASA astronauts as well, it is just measuring a different population.
        SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Yeah, the median can be measured, I never said it couldn't, it's just not a useful measure.
- randomdata 4y ago
  If we are all equal, none of us would be "under the median".
nibbleshifter 4y ago
Short answer: yes. Longer answer: also yes.
gorbachev 4y ago
I remember what hiring was before the dot.com bust. People straight out of school with no professional experience, or even any open source or personal project work, were hired as senior engineers.

hef19898 4y ago

By definition, half of us are under the median.

drewcoo 4y ago
> By definition, half of us are under the median. Given that no one can agree how to measure, I'd bet that most of us are.
- moate 4y ago
  No, don’t do that, now you’ve upset math. Or rather: I’ll mortgage my house and put my life savings on the line against that bet.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Nobody specified what measure the median was made against - or that skill is involved in any way - so it’s still possible. Brought to you by another chapter in the book Recreational Arguments.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    Shame about your house and life savings. One man's brilliance is another man's "who wrote this crap?" It is indeed quite likely that most of us, possibly even all of us, will fall below the median of someone's measure.
    - everforward 4y ago
      They're making a math joke. It's impossible for more than half of the sample to be below the median since the median is constructed so that half fall on each side. Having 60% of a sample below the median means someone calculated the median wrong.
      - randomdata 4y ago
        > It's impossible for more than half of the sample to be below the median No. It is very much possible when the measure is undefined, as was the condition setup before the bet was made. If we take it to the logical end where your chosen measure is simply the inverse of my chosen measure, then those above the median by my measure fall below the median by your measure and vice versa, leaving the entire set of those outside of the median to be seen below the median (and also above the median). As it pertains to the larger discussion, how the quality of a developer is measured has not been established, which means everyone is likely to measure differently and often in conflicting ways, and so most of us are bound to be below the median according to someone. So, yes, this was originally pointed out in a humorous manner. The bet made on the basis of that joke was, indeed, unfortunate.
        everforward 4y ago
        > No. It is very much possible when the measure is undefined, as was the condition setup before the bet was made. I promise you, it's not, because that's not how medians work. This is the Wikipedia definition of a median: > In statistics and probability theory, the median is the value separating the higher half from the lower half of a data sample, a population, or a probability distribution. There have to be half on each side or it's not a median. The mean doesn't have to be distributed like that, but the median does. It doesn't matter if the measure is undefined; the median divides the upper half from the lower half. There are always 50% on each side (and one on the median, if there are an odd number of samples). > If we take it to the logical end where your chosen measure is simply the inverse of my chosen measure, then those above the median by my measure fall below the median by your measure and vice versa, leaving the entire set of those outside of the median to be seen below the median (and also above the median). Sure, but that's not a median. That's the intersection of people above 2 separate medians of 2 separate measures. You can't combine the median of separate measures and have it still be median; you can combine the measures into a single measure and that has a median where half are above and half are below. > As it pertains to the larger discussion, how the quality of a developer is measured has not been established, which means everyone is likely to measure differently and often in conflicting ways, and so most of us are bound to be below the median according to someone. Totally agree there, I'm just beating a pedantic, dead horse that that's not a measure (it's a bunch), and it doesn't have "a" median (it has a bunch). You're talking about the intersection of people above the medians of a bunch of measurements, which doesn't share any of the properties of a median or being above/below it.
    - moate 4y ago
      Your sampling is flawed then. If you're arguing for some quantum metric that could make me lose it, you're for some reason not providing the word "us" with the same leverage which puts us into a situation we should just default to the literal definition of median since there's literally no way to prove (or disprove) your point. But sure, you've proven you can buzzkill anything, so you win!
      - randomdata 4y ago
        As was said by the parent commenter (drewcoo) just before you placed your bet, because no measure is established, each evaluator is bound to have a different opinion of how to measure a developer, and as a result most developers are likely to fall below the median (according to someone's measure). There is no mathematical contradiction. Perhaps a misunderstanding on your part? Either way, the bet was lost. Time for drewcoo to reap the rewards.
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
But is that a useful measure? By definition half of the astronauts who went to the moon are under the "astronauts who went to the moon" skill median.
- sumedh 4y ago
  All those astronauts had to pass some kind uniform skill test by NASA. There is no uniform skill tests for all the Devs.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    Well, I was just trying to point out that median is a silly measure, but now we're really comparing apples to oranges. Every astronaut is not a NASA astronaut and so they haven't had to undergo a uniform skill test but there are still excellent odds that every astronaut is qualified for their role even if they are below the median "astronaut". Yes, it could be argued that every space agency has some sort of test, but the same could be argued of every employed dev as they'll have had to pass an interview. Again, not saying that every dev is a good dev, but that median is a silly measure.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      The median does apply to NASA astronauts as well, it is just measuring a different population.
      - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        Yeah, the median can be measured, I never said it couldn't, it's just not a useful measure.
randomdata 4y ago
If we are all equal, none of us would be "under the median".

nibbleshifter 4y ago

Short answer: yes. Longer answer: also yes.

gorbachev 4y ago

I remember what hiring was before the dot.com bust. People straight out of school with no professional experience, or even any open source or personal project work, were hired as senior engineers.