6 ms·

Are these people not worried about storing their entire lives in some SaaS company's proprietary format on their cloud servers?

HPsquared 3y ago
I wonder if they offer an option to export the data in some usable format.
- PradeetPatel 3y ago
  Unless there's a tangible monetary benefit in doing so, I don't see why that would be a good business decision. It is likely that there will be some use cases for power users, however one must justify the development and opportunity costs associated with that.
  - corobo 3y ago
    Seems like they do from a quick googlin' https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content https://www.notion.so/help/back-up-your-data https://www.notion.so/help/back-up-your-data > one must justify the development and opportunity costs GDPR
- idontknowifican 3y ago
  yes, markdown
- geraltofrivia 3y ago
  It's not the most intuitive export (since there are backlinks, complex hierarchy, databases and all that jazz in Notion pages) but they do return Markdown for every page, CSV for databases (with some information loss), maintain folder structures, and multimedia attachments. A quick search shows me that Notion exports can be used to populate Obsidian [1] (which implies that there's not substantial information loss). [1] - https://forum.obsidian.md/t/notion-2-obsidian-migration-instructions/2728 https://forum.obsidian.md/t/notion-2-obsidian-migration-inst...
- jitl 3y ago
  (I work at Notion) We support Markdown/CSV "plain text" export, a semantically-rich HTML export, and a PDF export which is just the HTML export rendered as a PDF. https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content
quaintdev 3y ago
They probably don't care or think they have nothing to hide or probably never stumbled across numerous self hosted alternatives https://selfhosting.quest/search?q=wiki https://selfhosting.quest/search?q=wiki
- dividedbyzero 3y ago
  Self-hosting also means you'll have to make sure it's up and secure at all times. I used to self-host a ton of things, but keeping a decent security posture has become so much effort it's just no longer feasible for me, and no longer fun, so I try to use SaaS with a good track record and a backup/export option for anything critical these days.
  - tylergetsay 3y ago
    Self hosting has only got easier in the security regard thanks to solutions like tailscale
    - dividedbyzero 3y ago
      Tailscale is a centralized service that your whole network is exposed to. I'm using them but if you're self-hosting for security or privacy reasons, that's probably not what you'd want as they or someone who compromises them would essentially own your network and it doesn't get much more critical than that. You can monitor and harden your infrastructure against that, but that's no longer easy. If you trust Tailscale with all your traffic, including from/to your notes app, I guess you could just as well trust a SaaS notes solution with a good track record and support for exports/backups.
      - freedomben 3y ago
        Tailscale is only partially centralized (the admin portion). The actual traffic flow is not. But also, I use Headscale so I'm self-hosting my tailscale as well. As a self-hoster, I would totally recommend to the average person to self-host services on your LAN, and just use tailscale to extend your LAN beyond your house (for example on your laptop and phone) so you can get to things when you're not at home. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
sligor 3y ago
you can export and backup your entire workspace in usable format ( markdown for pages + csv for databases + attachments).
rchaud 3y ago
Notion's biggest market is students that have grown up with Google Docs. The idea of local storage is long gone for the "digital natives" generation. There was even this story from a couple of years ago from an engineering professor who had to change how she taught basic concepts because her students weren't familiar with folder-based file systems [0]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-direc...
- coding123 3y ago
  Generation before me does that. My generation knows what a file is. Generation after me does that.
- Invictus0 3y ago
  That idea will come right back when one of their favorite services pulls the plug.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    The majority won't. I have seen this myself, as I did not like the SaaS nature of Roam Research, and wanted a local-first solution. There is a large community of people using Logseq or Obsidian, but they are still a tiny monitory as these products don't have name recognition and there aren't as many polished videos about them on YT.
koliber 3y ago
I am. I export my Notion to HTML regularly. I can do a plain text search on it. I actually do regularly go back and search my notes and journals within Notion. Knowing that I will be able to do it if I ever leave Notion is comforting. P.S. If anyone at Notion is reading this, please work on your search. It could be so much more useful.
- jitl 3y ago
  We know, and we are!

HPsquared 3y ago

I wonder if they offer an option to export the data in some usable format.

PradeetPatel 3y ago
Unless there's a tangible monetary benefit in doing so, I don't see why that would be a good business decision. It is likely that there will be some use cases for power users, however one must justify the development and opportunity costs associated with that.
- corobo 3y ago
  Seems like they do from a quick googlin' https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content https://www.notion.so/help/back-up-your-data https://www.notion.so/help/back-up-your-data > one must justify the development and opportunity costs GDPR
idontknowifican 3y ago
yes, markdown
geraltofrivia 3y ago
It's not the most intuitive export (since there are backlinks, complex hierarchy, databases and all that jazz in Notion pages) but they do return Markdown for every page, CSV for databases (with some information loss), maintain folder structures, and multimedia attachments. A quick search shows me that Notion exports can be used to populate Obsidian [1] (which implies that there's not substantial information loss). [1] - https://forum.obsidian.md/t/notion-2-obsidian-migration-instructions/2728 https://forum.obsidian.md/t/notion-2-obsidian-migration-inst...
jitl 3y ago
(I work at Notion) We support Markdown/CSV "plain text" export, a semantically-rich HTML export, and a PDF export which is just the HTML export rendered as a PDF. https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content https://www.notion.so/help/export-your-content

quaintdev 3y ago

They probably don't care or think they have nothing to hide or probably never stumbled across numerous self hosted alternatives https://selfhosting.quest/search?q=wiki https://selfhosting.quest/search?q=wiki

dividedbyzero 3y ago
Self-hosting also means you'll have to make sure it's up and secure at all times. I used to self-host a ton of things, but keeping a decent security posture has become so much effort it's just no longer feasible for me, and no longer fun, so I try to use SaaS with a good track record and a backup/export option for anything critical these days.
- tylergetsay 3y ago
  Self hosting has only got easier in the security regard thanks to solutions like tailscale
  - dividedbyzero 3y ago
    Tailscale is a centralized service that your whole network is exposed to. I'm using them but if you're self-hosting for security or privacy reasons, that's probably not what you'd want as they or someone who compromises them would essentially own your network and it doesn't get much more critical than that. You can monitor and harden your infrastructure against that, but that's no longer easy. If you trust Tailscale with all your traffic, including from/to your notes app, I guess you could just as well trust a SaaS notes solution with a good track record and support for exports/backups.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Tailscale is only partially centralized (the admin portion). The actual traffic flow is not. But also, I use Headscale so I'm self-hosting my tailscale as well. As a self-hoster, I would totally recommend to the average person to self-host services on your LAN, and just use tailscale to extend your LAN beyond your house (for example on your laptop and phone) so you can get to things when you're not at home. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

sligor 3y ago

you can export and backup your entire workspace in usable format ( markdown for pages + csv for databases + attachments).

rchaud 3y ago

Notion's biggest market is students that have grown up with Google Docs. The idea of local storage is long gone for the "digital natives" generation. There was even this story from a couple of years ago from an engineering professor who had to change how she taught basic concepts because her students weren't familiar with folder-based file systems [0]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-direc...

coding123 3y ago
Generation before me does that. My generation knows what a file is. Generation after me does that.
Invictus0 3y ago
That idea will come right back when one of their favorite services pulls the plug.
- rchaud 3y ago
  The majority won't. I have seen this myself, as I did not like the SaaS nature of Roam Research, and wanted a local-first solution. There is a large community of people using Logseq or Obsidian, but they are still a tiny monitory as these products don't have name recognition and there aren't as many polished videos about them on YT.

koliber 3y ago

I am. I export my Notion to HTML regularly. I can do a plain text search on it. I actually do regularly go back and search my notes and journals within Notion. Knowing that I will be able to do it if I ever leave Notion is comforting. P.S. If anyone at Notion is reading this, please work on your search. It could be so much more useful.

jitl 3y ago
We know, and we are!