4 ms·
So basically what happens is the workers get more money, but everything they male costs more so everyone ends with the same standard of living?
by refurb 4y ago
So basically what happens is the workers get more money, but everything they male costs more so everyone ends with the same standard of living?
- scotty79 4y agoWhat happens now is that things produced by workers cooperatives can't cost more because they wouldn't find customers so if the workers don't want to exploit workers they won't be competitive. Tax break would give them the edge that normal businesses get when they fuel themselves with never ending rotation of exploited workers. The end goal is not to make lives more or less affordable. Just make the work more reasonable by putting working people in charge of how work is organized and rewarded, more often.
- refurb 4y agoSo what happens if a bunch of businesses then decide to become worker cooperatives? No more taxes paid? So personal taxes go up?
- greenie_beans 4y agoyou're basically explaining how this already works under capitalism.
- scotty79 4y agoYeah, no more business and work taxes. But also zero wealth captured by very few capital owners. Money stays in the hands of the workers/consumers so they have money to fund stuff bottom up or if necessary pay higher taxes. It's way easier to effectively tax the workers than tax the capital owners when it comes to it.
- refurb 4y agoSo no more external investment? If a worker cooperative needs $20M to build a factory it comes from where?
- scotty79 4y agoBank. Basically lenders not gamblers that want to risk capital for equity.
- refurb 4y agoYeah, not going to happen. Banks don't make risky loans like that, investors do. And who owns the banks? Investors?
- scotty79 4y agoBanks can also be co-owned by the workers, perhaps some less risk averse depositors. Risky is a relative term... what are banks going to do with their money if that's one of the only few investments available? Also some loans might be guaranteed by the government, like it happens with some today, if they are for companies in a inherently risky but promising industry.
- refurb 4y agoI'll be honest, none of this sounds very well thought out. If a bank tanks a risky loan, then they need a high interest rate. That's going to accumulate capital in the hands of the lenders, not the workers. And now the government is going to back these super risky loans? So socialize the loses, but privatize the profits?
- scotty79 4y agoIt already works. Businesses fund themselves with loans.
- refurb 4y agoSmall businesses do. Business that dont have high capital costs do. But any industry with high capital costs, hardware, electronics, automobiles, consumer appliances, pharmaceuticals all have massive start-up costs that bank loans wont work for. You think Tesla would ever exist with just bank loans?
- greenie_beans 4y agoyeah. also need less structural barriers for legally forming a cooperative. it's so confusing and obtuse if you want to form one, and a lot of states make it hard for some reason (we need something like stripe atlas for worker cooperatives). plus a lot of folks don't even realize organizing a business like this is an option. and a lot of folks wrongly assume that cooperative == less money / less efficient. we've been brainwashed by the capitalist organization of enterprise.