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Look at healthcare during covid. My province in Canada has treated healthcare workers like absolute shit and now the leaders and the people who voted for them

by Teever 4y ago

Look at healthcare during covid. My province in Canada has treated healthcare workers like absolute shit and now the leaders and the people who voted for them are genuinely shocked that those healthcare workers are leaving the industry or finding jobs elsewhere. It's absolutely insane because you need these people to train the next generation of healthcare workers which isn't going to happen now because they're leaving.

eastbound 4y ago
That makes healthcare cheap, though. We have the same in France, doctors have quite a low pay (of course in the top of the locals, but not as much as even a startup, and startups don’t advance humanity), nurses have a really low pay, some can’t afford living nearby. But on the upside, I barely pay 26€ to see a doctor. It’s the heart of convincing people to work hard for very little. If I were the most gruesome capitalist ever, I’d be a socialist. The TikTok dances are nice, though.
- pas 4y ago
  why do you think startups don't advance humanity especially compared to doctors!? most doctors don't participate in clinical trials, they just do what they are told to do by protocols. (of course most startups fail, and they do whatever is hype at the time.)
  - eastbound 4y ago
    Everything is advancing humanity, then. Selling weapons might be seen as advancing humanity. Startups aren’t particularly human in average, neither in their goals nor internally. It’s just that, at the beginning of a new industry, all the low hanging fruits like “Register everyone in a big directory with photos”, “Make a video app where you can learn things” seem like advancing humanity, because it’s a leap forward. But they’re no better than in a mature industry, doing proper business. A doctor, a nurse talking with a dying person is advancing humanity. You, noticing a depressed man in the office; a kid talking to the bullied kid in class, that’s advancing humanity. No, Jira isn’t advancing humanity, no more than Carrefour negotiating rebates on vegetables against farmers.
    - pas 4y ago
      Just that there's a spectrum, and because most things are very close to zero (and because there's a lot of small positive things) it doesn't mean that everything is above zero :) And ... selling weapons might be positive might be negative. Selling weapons to defend against Russia might be positive right now. Selling weapons to dumbass US civilians who then can't keep it safe seems negative. How is talking to anyone dying actually advancing humanity? Hitting the brakes on the cult of meaningless clinging to life in hospitals would be some advance. Allowing people to say goodbye while they still can... Jira definitely is from hell, but when it was not this cruel cloud-crazy incumbent it was doing some things better than the alternatives back then. I'm not saying startups are good because they are small/new/risk-taking, but I'm trying to say that incumbents are usually bad because they have more monopolistic tendencies (than the startups that want of course also usually want to eat the market).
- groestl 4y ago
  > If I were the most gruesome capitalist ever, I’d be a socialist. Both models match to some extend (i.e. potential to make life hell for everyone), when all productive capital is allocated to a single company.
  - 8jef 4y ago
    Indeed. Capitalist: this pie is the whole world, and I own it - you want some, pay up front. Socialist: I want a piece of that pie, damn I helped you cooking it, only for scraps - you can't have it for yourself. Me: a whole universe subsist within and around that pie that nobody care about, let's enjoy that.
vidarh 4y ago
The UK has for a long time "solved" this by importing healthcare workers from abroad, contributing to exacerbating the same problem and driving up the average cost per staying healthcare worker for a whole range of third world countries... Can't blame the people coming here who see significantly better opportunities in the UK, but definitely can blame the politicians not doing enough to ensure enough are educated here and/or ensure they are treated well enough to stay in the jobs longer.
MattPalmer1086 4y ago
I'm going to guess Alberta. I don't live there, but my wife is Canadian and she has a few things to say about it...
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  ON, SK, and other Conservative Party-led provinces are seeing the same thing, or moves in that direction. Make the system shitty so that there is a justification to privatize. AB is just the most balls-out about it since Danielle Smith is basically a female Bill O'Reilly who got elected to Premier (aka Governor for the USA-ians). Boomers dying earlier than their parents, and stressing the system in large numbers, are also stretching these systems. Even if a NDP-led-double-down-on-healthcare approach there would be serious issues due to demographics.

by Teever 4y ago

eastbound 4y ago

That makes healthcare cheap, though. We have the same in France, doctors have quite a low pay (of course in the top of the locals, but not as much as even a startup, and startups don’t advance humanity), nurses have a really low pay, some can’t afford living nearby. But on the upside, I barely pay 26€ to see a doctor. It’s the heart of convincing people to work hard for very little. If I were the most gruesome capitalist ever, I’d be a socialist. The TikTok dances are nice, though.

pas 4y ago
why do you think startups don't advance humanity especially compared to doctors!? most doctors don't participate in clinical trials, they just do what they are told to do by protocols. (of course most startups fail, and they do whatever is hype at the time.)
- eastbound 4y ago
  Everything is advancing humanity, then. Selling weapons might be seen as advancing humanity. Startups aren’t particularly human in average, neither in their goals nor internally. It’s just that, at the beginning of a new industry, all the low hanging fruits like “Register everyone in a big directory with photos”, “Make a video app where you can learn things” seem like advancing humanity, because it’s a leap forward. But they’re no better than in a mature industry, doing proper business. A doctor, a nurse talking with a dying person is advancing humanity. You, noticing a depressed man in the office; a kid talking to the bullied kid in class, that’s advancing humanity. No, Jira isn’t advancing humanity, no more than Carrefour negotiating rebates on vegetables against farmers.
  - pas 4y ago
    Just that there's a spectrum, and because most things are very close to zero (and because there's a lot of small positive things) it doesn't mean that everything is above zero :) And ... selling weapons might be positive might be negative. Selling weapons to defend against Russia might be positive right now. Selling weapons to dumbass US civilians who then can't keep it safe seems negative. How is talking to anyone dying actually advancing humanity? Hitting the brakes on the cult of meaningless clinging to life in hospitals would be some advance. Allowing people to say goodbye while they still can... Jira definitely is from hell, but when it was not this cruel cloud-crazy incumbent it was doing some things better than the alternatives back then. I'm not saying startups are good because they are small/new/risk-taking, but I'm trying to say that incumbents are usually bad because they have more monopolistic tendencies (than the startups that want of course also usually want to eat the market).
groestl 4y ago
> If I were the most gruesome capitalist ever, I’d be a socialist. Both models match to some extend (i.e. potential to make life hell for everyone), when all productive capital is allocated to a single company.
- 8jef 4y ago
  Indeed. Capitalist: this pie is the whole world, and I own it - you want some, pay up front. Socialist: I want a piece of that pie, damn I helped you cooking it, only for scraps - you can't have it for yourself. Me: a whole universe subsist within and around that pie that nobody care about, let's enjoy that.

vidarh 4y ago

The UK has for a long time "solved" this by importing healthcare workers from abroad, contributing to exacerbating the same problem and driving up the average cost per staying healthcare worker for a whole range of third world countries... Can't blame the people coming here who see significantly better opportunities in the UK, but definitely can blame the politicians not doing enough to ensure enough are educated here and/or ensure they are treated well enough to stay in the jobs longer.

MattPalmer1086 4y ago

I'm going to guess Alberta. I don't live there, but my wife is Canadian and she has a few things to say about it...

red-iron-pine 4y ago
ON, SK, and other Conservative Party-led provinces are seeing the same thing, or moves in that direction. Make the system shitty so that there is a justification to privatize. AB is just the most balls-out about it since Danielle Smith is basically a female Bill O'Reilly who got elected to Premier (aka Governor for the USA-ians). Boomers dying earlier than their parents, and stressing the system in large numbers, are also stretching these systems. Even if a NDP-led-double-down-on-healthcare approach there would be serious issues due to demographics.